A week ago, I started my cultural boycott of Israel, in direct response to, but not caused only by, the events surrounding the murders (or war crimes) on the Freedom Flotilla. These are some reflections on the boycott itself and on the reactions it has caused.
What is a cultural boycott, and is it fair?
I consider my blockade as part of a cultural boycott of the same kind as that against South Africa in the 80s. As such it is a gesture which some people will feel is hurting them unjustly.
On an individual level, that is entirely true: why should all the good-hearted, friendly citizens of Israel, those who have never voted for Netanyahu and who are against the blockade of Gaza and feel sorry for the citizens of Gaza – why should they be punished for the transgressions of their Government and the IDF?
But this misses the fundamental character of a cultural boycott: Unlike trade embargos or disinvestment it is not meant to hurt the economy, or to pressurize or punish individuals through the means of market economy (“we have something you need, but we won’t give it to you”). Rather, it is a symbolic gesture, aimed to send a signal: “judging by your behaviour, as a group, by watching the actions of the people you are represented by, we can’t regard you as decent people. We can do without that contact. It’s up to you to give us a reason to want talk with you.”
This is the perspective in which I see the boycott: as an explicit act of non-communication. The way you let yourselves be represented as a collective (and, I must add, present and re-present yourselves, again and again) I don’t want to talk with you, just as I didn’t want to help the schoolyard bully with his homework, even when he hadn’t done anything to me directly.
It has been said that a boycott of this kind is based on a fundamental trust in the people one wants to reach and influence. The comparison with South Africa is illustrative: the apartheid rulers were – or wanted to be – an integrated part of international society, and they wanted to be seen as decent people, by themselves and others. That’s why the boycott worked.
As far as I can tell, the same can be said about the people of Israel: they want to be met as decent people. I hope that’s true.
Reactions from Israelis
So far, I’ve received lots of emails from Israeli citizens in response to the boycott. It has been a depressing read.
There are two trends in these mails.
First, there is the hoard of mails with the main or – usually – only message: “go fuck with dogs you mother faker”, “you are a pig and a dog”, “your children will be sick”, “ISRAELRAPEDYOURASS”, “Go to the hell, idiot!!!”, “Good day to you, Adolf”, “bloody antichrist” (which I found oddly amusing, coming from Israel. Could have been a Christian Israeli, of course), and “you nazi pig. we know where you live”. These are exact quotations, and just a small selection
A large portion of them also seem to know exactly how much – or should I say: how little – I know about the true situation, that I only know what I’ve seen on CNN and other brainwashed media.
Quite a few tell me – openly or indirectly – that the reactions against Israel in general and the boycott in specific are anti-semitic, that the boycott is a hostile assault or even an act of violence.
Apart from that, I’ve received exactly one mail from an Israeli who supports the boycott, and exactly one blog comment from an Israeli who disagrees strongly withe me but still supports the boycott. Other than those two, not a single person so far has in any way acknowledged that Israel has done anything that is worth reacting to (at least without [qua|nul]lifying it with one of the two continuations: “…but we were right!”, or “…but others are just as bad.”).
Secondly, almost without exception, every single mail I have received has offered to educate me about the Truth, taking for granted that I only know what the pro-Palestinian media have fed me and the rest of the world, and that not a word of it is true.
This extreme focus on One Single, Indivisible and Indisputable Truth is so universal in the pool of messages that it looks like an obsession.
If there is only room for one Truth of this kind in one’s world, it must be difficult to accept any statement which conflicts with the truth one has accepted. Hence the notions that “We are Right, everyone else is Wrong”, and, consequently: “The whole world is against us”, that usually accompany the lessons in Truth (if not in these exact words).
This, and not the unbridled hatred that pours off of a lot of the mails, is the most depressing part of the reading experience. It’s so consistent that it’s scary: I’ve been met with hundreds of mouths lip-syncing different words to the same track. The intros vary from “get the facts right, you asshole” to “I can understand your anger, but let me tell you how it really is”, but the song is the same in mail after mail:
The ’so called humanitarian workers’ on the Freedom Flotilla were terrorists (which is proven by a picture showing one of them holding a knife) and Israel had the right to do what it did (forgetting that, no, according to international agreements, Israel did not have the right to do what it did: it was “an illegal act of war”); there is no need for humanitarian aid in Gaza (proven by a certain Gaza Restaurant Menu, by pictures of fruit stands in Gaza marketplaces, and by reference to how many trucks of goods Israel sends or lets through every day).
So what is truth, then? And what is a fact?
This is not the place to go into that whole question, neither the philosophical aspects nor the practical ones. (But let me mention that I’ve spent some time in my academic life discussing the question “If history is a construction (and it is hard to argue otherwise), why do facts matter?”, with the explicit goal of arguing that Holocaust denial is not only stupid and immoral, but also destructive, even for those of us who are fortunate not to have first- or second-hand knowledge of the events that are being denied.)
With remarkable consistency, the “Truth” that I’ve been offered is either of a propagandistic or rhetorical nature, or strongly open to interpretation, which a priori defies the notion of an undisputable Truth. Here are some recurring ways in which Truth is revealed:
Pictures.
A picture can lie more than a thousand words. The media know that, and so does every governmental propaganda machine in the world. What is not in the picture? What are the circumstances of the picture? Is it at all genuine? I once took two pictures of a lecture hall, one showing it to be near-empty, the other crammed with people. All it took was a different angle.
Experience.
“Have you ever been to Israel? Didn’t think so.” “Since you do not live in threat all your life, you do not deserve to speak out loud.”
If that’s your opinion, then so be it. I don’t see any reason in such a standpoint, and I choose to disregard it. As Rohan phrased it in one of the comments: “Would I have need to have been in Germany in 1938 to condemn Kristall night?”
Words.
A lot can be done with words – they are powerful tools. There is a huge difference between a peace activist and a so-called peace activist; this so-called peace activist may have donated to a so-called ’charity’ organization with ’alleged’ ties to Hamas, and is thus a muslim fundamentalist terrorist, and voilà: a flotilla of peace activists is transformed into an armada of terrorists. And what do terrorists carry on their ships, if not weapons and ill intentions?
All this is done with words, quite innocent little changes, a seed of suspicion sowed here (’alleged’, ’so-called’), a quick generalization there, and suddenly a ludicrous statement such as “The fact that only 9 Jihad activists [were killed] is proof to the IDF soldiers’ restraint”, acquires a shade of the reasonable (and to some, it parades as the Truth).
An example
I’m not going to go through the whole arsenal of rhetorics, but limit myself to the question of the legality of the Israeli interception, as an example.
The general agreement among experts in international law is that the conflict is a NIAC, because Israel has never declared war on Gaza (To do that, it would have to recognize Gaza as a state, in which case the Geneva Convention would apply, which ironically would have sharpened the demands on how Israel treats both the civilian population of Gaza and the Palestinian prisoners, and improved the conditions for both).
Furthermore, that this distinction matters, since the regulations in the various naval war agreements (none of which, as far as I’ve been able to check it, Israel have signed) about intercepting ships apply only to nations at war, engaged in an IAC.
Furthermore, that Gaza is de facto occupied; this is not determined by the physical presence of soldiers, but by the actual control over the area and its inhabitants.
Furthermore, that for a blockade to be legal, it must be determined as legal by the UN Security Council under Section 42. This is not the case: the blockade of Gaza is unilateral, undisclosed, and – as far as merchants have been able to infer from the goods that have been denied into the region – encompasses items (sage, vinegar, etc.) which under no circumstance can be considered as contraband, but which make the blockade serve as a collective punishment — explicitly regulated aginst in the various regulations. For ths and other reasons, the blockade has never been accepted by the UN.
Lastly, the right to blockade does not extend to international waters, where any vessel can travel freely. Craig Murray, former UK Ambassador, sums it up concisely:
Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody’s territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.
There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.
Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.
Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.
Now, it is possible to come to the opposite conclusion and construe the blockade of Gaza as a legal act of warfare, to cut-and-paste from different naval war agreements (none of which Israel has signed) to legitimize the interception and the use of violence, etc.
None of the versions are the Truth. “Fact” is simply not a relevant term in this matter. Interpretation is not just a possibility but a necessity.
Interpretation is not about twisting and turning the truth, corrupting facts; it’s about exposing your own facts to those of other people. I.e. to interact with other interpretations.
If you think the sun is yellow, but the whole world says: “The sun’s not yellow, it’s chicken,” you have three options: you can say “The whole world has gone mad!”, you can say “The whole world is lying!”, or you can ask yourself: “What do all those people mean by that?” and then ask the world the same question. In either case, it would be wise not to put too much hope in communication with that other world if you keep insisting that the sun is yellow, even though that’s how it looks to you.
Besides, the world is not denying that the sun is yellow. The Gaza/Flotilla issue is not a matter of denying the obvious. It’s about different interpretations, against different standards.
Judging and communicating
I don’t suggest that every citizen of Israel should roll over and play dead and surrender all their power to any bypasser, or some kind of pseudo-leftist, emotional crap like that – I’m fully aware that that’s not how things work.
But it would pay off to be aware that the twisting of truth (presented as The Truth) and bending of rules that the international community to an increasing degree perceives in the leaders you (and I’m speaking to the Israelis now) are represented by, makes you all, as a group, come through as a bunch of liars, to put it bluntly.
But even more importantly, the outside world sees you making decisions of a kind which can only be legitimized by a standard of ethics and morals which is predetermined: which starts out with a fixed scale of valuation of people: that some people by default have greater rights than others. That’s a standard which is detestable to me, whether it is grounded in a racist ideology, such as the German nazis, or in a self-imposed division into Us and Them, Good and Evil, True and False, as I perceive behind the automatic accusations of antisemitism/-zionism that erupt every time anyone criticizes anything Israel does.
Dylanchords is all about communication, about the empowering potential of music and language, the means that are available to all human beings of empowerment and growth through cultural interaction. Music and poetry are stylized ways of handling the patterns of tension and relief, of bodily reactions and physical encounter. Through these means, we can extend the possible world, for ourselves and for others.
Now, this is serious business: exposing other people to a transformed world calls for righteousness and honesty from both the giver (in my case: Dylan and, concerning the website, myself) and the receiver (myself, the visitors). There is an individual responsibility in there, of safeguarding and cultivating that will to empower the other and thereby gain in strength oneself.
I know of few regimes since apartheid South Africa that have combined physical power with a dishonest use of language to the degree that Israel’s rulers do and have done for as long as I can remember. When I have to put up with their patent lies (the ’Gaza Restaurant Menu’, for example), their immoral rhetoric and their consistent abuse of logical fallacies, in their official statements, in news reports, in blog commentaries, in private mails, etc., they are distorting the language I use and through which I perceive the world. That’s a game I don’t want to play in: I don’t want to communicate with people who – either directly or indirectly through the people they have elected and, judging from the responses so far, wholeheartedly support – are polluting and corrupting language.
Friendly advice
Many have asked me: “Well, Dr. Adolf Smartass, tell us, what should we do then?” I sense a sarcastic undertone the way the question is formulated, but nevertheless:
- Stop looking at the world in black and white.
- Stop equating truth with right.
- Stop arguing for the lesser evil. Remember that, as Hannah Arendt said, “those who choose the lesser evil very quickly forget that they choose evil.”
- Stop assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is against you.
- Stop calling anyone who disagrees with you an “antisemite”, “pig”, “dog”, “nazi”, “Hitler”, “Goebbels”, etc. If the “Antisemite” card is played every time someone criticizes something Israel has done, it looses its force, also in the situations when it should be played. Yes, there are antisemitic traits in some of the Hamas documents, and there is a lot of it in populist propaganda in muslim countries and elsewhere, but that doesn’t mean that everything the Hamas says is antisemitic, nor that every criticism of Israel by definition is a cancerous outgrowth of an antisemitic ideology.
- You have a great cultural heritage. Don’t waste that on self-pity and anger.
We are what we do, and should be judged by that. It’s not the other way around: that we can do according to what we are judged – by ourselves or others – to be.
*
Note: The comments to this post will be moderated. I will not let through posts with the sole or main purpose (1) to tell me that I’m an idiot (no need to restate the obvious), or (2) to duplicate any of the “facts” in the comments to the previous post.
I appreciate your courage and honesty in this action. I am also disgusted by the tons of verbal excrementa that seem to have been thrown at you. However, I do disagree with your argumentation. If one, in your paragraph ‘Judging and Communicating’, replaces ‘Israel’ by ‘Palestine’ and ‘antisemitism’ by ‘anti-arabism’ the argument would not lose one gramme of its weight. I’m afraid the world is very selective in its anger and caught in logical fallacies indeed. You too.
Oh, I agree completely, at least if you exchange “Palestine” with “Hamas” or any other version of islamist ideology, which I detest just as much as any other predetermined morals, as I state in that paragraph. The ghost of fundamentalism — be it islamic, Christian, or Jewish — is in many ways my target #1, and in the long run a greater threat than guns and bullets.
What you’re pointing out is not a logical fallacy, but the fact (ooops, I’m using the f word) that the same argument can apply to many different (i.e. similar) cases.
Hello Mr Østrem.
You are giving to the Israelis very nice advices:
1. “Stop looking at the world in black and white.”
Indeed, it’s a very good rule. But, I think you should also obey it and not boycote only one side, “the neighborhood bully”, as you see Israel.
3. “Stop arguing for the lesser evil. Remember that, as Hannah Arendt said, “those who choose the lesser evil very quickly forget that they choose evil.”
You took a side in the conflict. As you can see, the Hamas and its followers in Gaza are not exactly angels. Hamas killed hundreds of israeli civilians in terrorist attacks, and 70% of the Gaza people voted for Hamas. So you are fighting for the terrorists, and you arguing for even more evil, not lesser evil, and forgot very quickly that you choose evil.
Hello,
I am an Israeli citizen living in Egypt and the United States who is a longtime Dylan fan and a person who used to spend hours playing songs off your website from my old apartment in Tel Aviv. I saw news of your re-routing of Israeli users and was simultaneously impressed by your creativity and greatly saddened.
Indeed Israeli policies towards the Palestinians are worthy of condemnation and have become especially in the last few weeks, indefensible and increasingly destructive. However, your action is not constructive either.
* First of all, cultural boycotts do not work. The causal linking of the international boycott movement to the end of apartheid is historically dubious. While it is certainly a popular understanding, it overlooks domestic factors within South Africa and more importantly, the end of the Cold War, the backdrop which sustained the apartheid regime. Most importantly, it is forgotten that more than change White South African opinions on apartheid, the boycotts succeeded to deprive Black South Africans of their basic economic needs.
* More importantly, know your audience. International isolation is not new for Israel and Jews are the inheritors of a millennia-long legacy of being pariahs and outcasts. A boycott like this does not have the effect of convincing an Israeli to reevaluate his/her government’s policies, but convincing another generation Israelis that what their jaded grandparents have told them is correct about everyone hating the Jews.
Especially as Israelis who are seeking out Dylan chords on English language websites tend to be from among the cosmopolitan and progressive segments of the population who are more likely to oppose Israeli actions. By cutting off their access to their favorite Bob Dylan music, you are only angering Israelis…who instead of listening to “A Hard Rain’s Going to Fall”, “Blowing in the Wind”, “Masters of War”, might be reminded of an Israeli song from the same period:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilN5ope8qeU
The popular 1970 tune is called “The Entire World is Against Us”, and the last verse reads:
“This song that our fathers taught us
Is the same song we sing now.
And so will those who came after us, our children
And our grandchildren’s grandchildren,
Here in the Land of Israel.
And everyone who is still against us
Can go to hell.”
This siege mentality, a view that the gentile world is intrinsically against the Jews, is Binyamin Netanyahu’s worldview among others’, and is much of what has created the Israeli actions which you oppose. By isolating Israel culturally and punishing everyday Israelis, you are in fact helping to spawn further tragedies in the future – and specifications that you are not against individual Israelis or Jews or “Zionists” are drowned out by your undiscriminating action.
@JUMP and David: Thanks for your comments. If/when I decide to lift the boycott, it will either be because I see change in how Israel acts, or for reasons such as the ones you point to, especially Jump’s #2.
I disagree with you about the nature and efficacy of cultural boycotts though. First of all: as David says: you can’t block ideas. Obviously, there are many ways around the block. Against an ip based block like this, a simple anonymizer will do the trick, or a trip to one of the mirrors of the site. In the days of google, nobody is ever really blocked out of anything on the net (with the exception of countries which are powerful enough to influence google itself, but I don’t fall in that category). Bottom line: nobody who wants to get on the site is really prevented from it. What remains is what I’ve called the symbolic gesture.
Obviously, I agree that economic sanctions are far more efficient. I’m not in a position to make much of a difference there; the few Israeli oranges I don’t eat, won’t topple a regime.
As for the comparison with South Africa, I also agree that there are differences, but two major similarities: the segregational policy (not necessarily based on racism, but I read in Haaretz — I don’t know if that counts — that racism is rampant in Israel, that 74% of Jewish youths call Arabs ‘unclean’, which is a disturbing addition to the stew), and the power to back it up. With a skewed power balance, the demands on justice become bigger for those who have the upper hand. “With great power comes great responsibility”, etc. Israel is not only militarily superior in the area, but is also backed by a strong lobby in the USA and other countries, and has a tremendous capital of sympathy. That capital is now running out, primarily because it is not translated into respect.
I also put a great deal of trust in Desmond Tutu’s analysis of the situation, both his assessment of the importance of the cultural boycott for the end of apartheid in South Africa, and his comparison of the situations in the two countries (e.g. his 2002 column “Apartheid in the Holy Land” from the Guardian). Tutu is one of the very few religious people I deeply respect, and I don’t think his opinion should be discarded easily.
As for JUMP’s point #2, that was the one thing that almost kept me from doing it. (The other was, as I try to express it in my previous post: why should I do it now? I will try to explain that in a coming post.) When I decided to go through with it, it was precisely for the reason that you mention: this is Netanyahu’s world view. If I succumb to that and decide not to lift a finger, he has won — again. The best way I could see for myself to contribute to changing that, was to communicate to all those Israelis who also oppose his actions and his government, that the gentile world is not intrinsically against the Jews, but against the injustices perpetrated by the Israeli government and armed forces, and that there is a way to change that.
One last note about the apartheid thing: I regret the formulation “I don’t know of any regime since apartheid South Africa that has …” etc. That is of course an exaggeration, and disrespectful to all the other oppressed peoples in countries like Turkey, several African countries, etc.
I live here in Israel but grew up else where and it pains me to how things have evolved here in the last 10 years. I didn’t have a solid opinion on your “cultural boycott”, though I do have some understanding where it comes from, most likely better than yourself as I have been blessed to live in one of the most tolerant and diverse countries before I arrived here.
Unfortunately, you really do detract from part of your message with comments such as
“I don’t know of any regime since apartheid South Africa that has combined physical power with a dishonest use of language to the degree that Israel’s rulers do and have done for as long as I can remember. ”
Which really portrays a bias and a double standard when it comes to Israel as there are many countries far worse than Israel in most respects both practical and theoretical. Russia, China, Iran, Serbia, most of the stan’s, all Arab countries etc.. However, I what I suspect upsets you (beyond the reality of the suffering and injustice ) is the dissonance between how Israel projects itself and its behaviour, and there I cannot fault anyone as it is very disturbing.
The mitigating circumstances to all this, is that this is the same society that only 10-15 years ago was very sincerely involved in a peace process while having to cope with a rather inhumane and barbaric violent suicidal campaign by Hamas in parallel. Just as you can understand that someone who is assaulted physically might be rather traumatized, so was Israeli society. Remember Hamas’s suicide bombing started even before Rabin was assassinated. They have a lot to answer for as the principal rejectionist party. That said we Israelis need to find our way past that trauma and for that we need some understanding and support.
Lastly, by your own logic you should also boycott gazan’s as they voted in Hamas as their government in 2006 and since its forceful takeover have shown no interest in over throwing it.
“Rather, it is a symbolic gesture, aimed to send a signal: “judging by your behaviour, as a group, we can’t regard you as decent people. We can do without that contact. It’s up to you to give us a reason to want talk with you.”
My suggestion if you want to remove any hypocrisy or double standards from you actions would be to direct all Israeli to a page or websites that explains that the occupation which has lasted 43 years and the blockade for 3 is inhumane, immoral and counter-productive by all standards and call an all Israelis to act in the spirit of Dylan’s music to rectify the situation.
Regards Dan
While many of us support aspects of BDS, particularly economic boycotts and divestment, American sanctions on Israel, including removing its military aid and joint economic development programs and trade agreements, would apply the most persuasive pressure on this rogue state.
But cultural boycotts are indefensible. If we find it just another sign of lack of democracy in Israel that Noam Chomsky was barred from entering the West Bank or some other speaker is barred from Israel proper — how can we turn around and do the same to some unknown Israeli?
I know many decent people working for peace in Israel. Don’t make the mistake of marginalizing them as citizens instead of their government.
As the flotilla attack demonstrates, you can’t blockade ideas.
Don’t blockade the people who express them either.
Believe it or not, supporting the boycott supports the Palestinians. Why do you suppose that Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, and many other Muslim governments did back it prior to this whole fiasco unraveling? There is currently no room in the middle east, in the world for that matter, for Hamas and its extreme values. If the world stands in unison, pressuring Hamas and showing that the Hamas philosophy is antiquated and counterproductive to harmony, happiness and progress, the majority of moderate Palestinians will soon follow. The brothers and sisters of Gazans who live in the West Bank are flourishing under the relatively moderate rule of Abbas. This moderation will be sure to trickle into Gaza as Gazans realize that moderation, and not extremism and the desire for the destruction of the state of Israel, is the path to prosperity and success. However, western pandering to Islam and Hamas opposes this and in fact encourages the fanaticism of Hamas.
Let’s try and not be myopic about the situation and maintain a long-term outlook.
Additionally, it is very difficult for me to criticize Israel for boarding the ship. Hamas is Israel’s Al Qaeda. Should Al Qaeda attempt to dock a ship and bring cargo close to the US, say to Cancun, Mexico, my only hope would be that the US Military prevent the ship’s passage and inspect its contents. Once on board, should soldiers be attacked, it would be only natural to practice self defense. I, and perhaps you too, would very likely respond the same way. Let’s not get this wrong, soldiers were attacked, and attacked they were. Footage from the IDF as well as from cameramen aboard the ship itself reveal this, as does testimony from the ship’s captain.
I understand that it is very fashionable right now, for reasons that I wish not to get into in this post, to criticize Israel. However, does this do any good? Those who support moderation and acceptance of others is what needs to be lauded, not fanaticism. Let’s please stand together and help make the middle east a safer place for all those who live there.
Eyolf,
You’re doing the right thing – but, you will be attacked, vilified, and sent many more hateful and incoherent messages containing vile language and dubious, illogical arguments, containing historical fallacies and misrepresentations of the factual record (as you already have). Be prepared for it.
The fact is that the Israelis have been lied to and largely manipulated by their leaders (especially the recent political makeup) and their media. Many see themselves as possible victims of surrounding hostile Arab powers wanting to push them out to install some kind of “islamic” society in all of Palestine, under the threat of constant attack because this has been very useful for their politicians to install this climate of fear to keep themselves in power and to take more land from the Palestinians. They see themselves as victims, even though the body count and aggressions on their neighbors from the last several decades clearly show the opposite, and their army has shown itself to be ever more dangerous, perhaps initiating another war in the region.
As their society moves ever more to the extreme right, and as they have been so indoctrinated, your act will seem very unfair to them, and even racist, and you will be accused of many things – but this might be one more detail that will spark some real reflection instead of just unthinking anger.
There are many Israelis fighting for justice and peace too, and it is a shame that they too will not be able to access your site, but in the greater scheme of things, that is little.
@Rob
How do you know that the Palestinian people are not being lied to about their own history and how do I know that you have not been lied to by whoever you told you anything?
You cant prove it as much as I cannot prove it to you apparently so there is no purpose in you even saying things like that as you only make yourself out to be the fool or have a weak argument to people.
We are used to these comments as much as you are used to the usual Israeli responses, so its a lose lose situation for both of us and to top it all we are not affected as much as you think we are by these boycotts or bad mouthing, it has been a part of our people for thousands of years and nothing has changed on either side… So before you go ripping into how we are wrong with what we do, look at your own history and look at yourself.
We are forced to look at ourselves everyday of our lives, dont come here with your know it all attitude please…
Leave us alone because we leave you alone.
I mean this with no disrespect, take it how you want to take it…
Thank you…
I support the cultural boycott, but I think it applies more to institutions that haven’t explicitly taken a stand supporting equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel, the right of return for Palestinian refugees and an end to the occupation. I’m not 100% convinced it should apply to individuals. I think if some individual in Israel prefaces their post with a statement in support of that, you should allow him/her to have his/her say on other subjects. Maybe that will be too much work on the part of the moderator.
I notice “neighborhood bully” cited in the previous thread was written by Dylan in 1983. I’m sure it reflects the prevailing western “knowledge” of the conflict at that time. It certainly shows a lot of ambiguity towards the “bully.” Enough, if you ask me, to make the lyrics a little incoherent. Dylan always drew on folk songs and tales, but in this one, he’s just transcribing zionist fiction. As some have written, it’s a stain on Dylan’s record.
To begin with I’d like to say that, as an Israeli, I like your “friendly advise”. If we follow each one of the six points our position may be heard differently. I think that what drives Israelis to react in a way of “Every one is against us” has to do with our history. The Jews were persecuted throughout history, and although we are independent now and control our own future, we still have that “way of thinking” rooted into our behavior.
However, being paranoid does not mean that no one is chasing you. The way the “world” is reacting to things that Israel does is not parallel to the way it reacts when others do similar or even worse things:
1. Did you boycott the Russians when they invaded Georgia? Did you boycott North Koreans when they sunk a South Korean ship killing 46 sailors? Did you boycott the British and Americans for what they seem to be doing in Afghanistan and Iraq?
2. You punish Israelis collectively for the actions of their government. But the fact that the Gazzans don’t stop the “minority” in them that shoot rockets everyday, including today, towards Israeli cities is not punishable collectively because they are “victims”. BTW (I didn’t see you boycott Palestinians for acts of terrorism of the Hammas (which is their ruling party in government in Gazza)
….
There are may examples but since you probably heard all these arguments before i won’t continue. I just wonder if you, and others like you, actually bother to really hear the other side of things.
It is very easy and politically correct to side with the Weak. The situation here is much more complicated then just Big Bad Israel against Poor Weak Palestinians. Siding with the weak may help the weak to become stronger but does not make the weak right, nor does it help all of us here in the middle east reach a solution.
Going back to the initial incident that started all this I want to say that it always takes two to tango.Putting aside for a moment the fact that I think Israel acted within reasonable parameters towards the flotilla, following what you said, no matter where the exact truth is, there must have been something different on the Marmara then all other ships. The “peace” activists on that ship acted differently in order to bring the violence on board otherwise I can’t explain why nothing happened on all other ships.
Israel is a democratic country, unlike all of its neighbors. There is room here for other opinions.There is pluralism here and active journalism. I don’t think we can easily be lied to by our government as one claimed here. BTW did you here what the Iranian leader has to say, does he not want us destroyed? or are we again just mislead and paranoid?
The more time I spend writing this the more ideas come into my mind. But I will stop here. Some friendly advise to you:
1. Stop looking at the middle east conflict in black and white.
2. Stop confusing “Right” with “Truth”.. (This does not come out exactly as I want, but I think you can understand… :) )
I’m not even a Dylan fan, but I feel I should speak up!
Be Well…
I don’t understand how you seem to be so well-informed, yet so one-sided, one the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It doesn’t make sense to me how you could boycott Israeli citizens because they elected Netanyahu, but be completely fine with Gazans who voted in Hamas, internationally recognized terrorists who jump to claim responsibility for Qassams that are fired towards civilians, and call for the destruction of the State of Israel. And that is not to say that the Flotilla raid was right- it seems to have been a poor military decision to raid the boats with soldiers, promoting conflict, rather than taking out the engines (although, in a recent NYTimes article, American Navy Officers said that if they wanted to stop the boat from getting to Gaza, raiding it was the right decision. And regardless of International legality, Israel has plenty of reason to stop boats from getting to Gaza…even if they do need humanitarian aid, Palestinians have consistently terrorized Israel whenever they were able to do so. If the point of your boycott is to show Israel that their actions are unacceptable (despite the innocence of some Israelis), why can’t you see Israel’s boycott in the same light–as punishing the actual humanitarian aid that would come through, because of the importance of stopping the inevitable weaponry that would come through as well. Do you really believe that Israelis are a racist people, out to make the Gazzans suffer? Israel has lived in harmony with Egypt, Jordan, and most Arab-Israelis for many years. But bus-bombings, Qassam-launchings, and terror attacks are simply unacceptable, and time after time, Gazans have shown the propensity towards terror, and almost never towards peace.
I’m pretty dismayed by most of what you wrote, and think that your mocking use of “The Truth,” is basically a shield from seeing both sides of a complex issue.
P.S. Wouldn’t Gazans Have Israeli IP Addresses?
Israelis already feel that the world is against them. This “cultural boycott” will backfire and make even left-wing Israelis defensive.
The visitors to this website are likely to be liberal already. What you are doing is like you had tried to end the Vietnam boycott by boycotting Berkeley.
Obviously I meant to write the Vietnam war.
I don’t understand how you seem to be so well-informed, yet so one-sided, one the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It doesn’t make sense to me how you could boycott Israeli citizens because they elected Netanyahu, but be completely fine with Gazans who voted in Hamas, internationally recognized terrorists who jump to claim responsibility for Qassams that are fired towards civilians, and call for the destruction of the State of Israel. And that is not to say that the Flotilla raid was right- it seems to have been a poor military decision to raid the boats with soldiers, promoting conflict, rather than taking out the engines (although, in a recent NYTimes article, American Navy Officers said that if they wanted to stop the boat from getting to Gaza, raiding it was the right decision. And regardless of International legality, Israel has plenty of reason to stop boats from getting to Gaza…even if they do need humanitarian aid, Palestinians have consistently terrorized Israel whenever they were able to do so. If the point of your boycott is to show Israel that their actions are unacceptable (despite the innocence of some Israelis), why can’t you see Israel’s boycott in the same light–as punishing the actual humanitarian aid that would come through, because of the importance of stopping the inevitable weaponry that would come through as well. Do you really believe that Israelis are a racist people, out to make the Gazzans suffer? Israel has lived in harmony with Egypt, Jordan, and most Arab-Israelis for many years. But bus-bombings, Qassam-launchings, and terror attacks are simply unacceptable, and time after time, Gazans have shown the propensity towards terror, and almost never towards peace.
I’m pretty dismayed by most of what you wrote, and think that your mocking use of “The Truth,” is basically a shield from seeing both sides of a complex issue.
P.S. Wouldn’t Gazans Have Israeli IP Addresses?
Dear Eyolf Østrem,
I take off my hat to you, for what matters is not whether your stand will make a difference, but the fact that you had the courage to take a stand. Had more Germans and Europeans taken your stand with Hitler, the holocaust may have never happened. You have proved to have more TRUE than those phony big mouths who are still crying wolf. “ that Pope Plus XII, betrayed the Jews of Europe, and sealed a deeply cynical pact with a 20th-century devil”
I am a Palestinian American who as a child had experienced the brutality of the Israel’s occupation and later on as an adult during my visits back home. I have always believed that Israelis brutality will come back to haunt them. For those who believe in God, they must believe him to be just, who will take revenge for the helpless. And if you do not believe in God, then the law of nature proves that no one nor any one people have monopoly on eternal power .Through out history kingdoms and empires have evolved slowly but fell a part much faster. Israeli leaders have repeated their lies to such an extreme that most Israelis and their supporters in America and Europe became to believe it to be the only truth.
For decades and way before Hamas was born, Israelis labeled all legitimate Palestinian resistance to their brutal, illegitimate and immoral occupation as anarchist, destructionists, radicals, extremists, or trouble makers. Then in the eighties, they discovered the word terrorists to be a more effective propaganda, so they started labeling all Palestinian resistance to Israel’s destructive occupation to be terrorism and they were supported by their guard dogs in the US and Europe.
With Israel’s attack on the Freedom Flotilla and the wide public support it received within Israel, Israelis are now conducting them selves with the same superiority complex and indignation towards all others as the Nazis did during the Hitler reign. I do not see improvement in this regard, but rather more racism, more fascism and more condescension towards all others. I believe in “what goes around comes around”.
I believe that Israelis and Palestinians either will flourish together in justice and equality or vanish together in hell. Tragically Israel has begun its irreversible slide to hell and it is taking my people and possibly millions more in the region and the world with it.
I extend my hand to all Jews and non Jews to save Israelis, Palestinians and millions more from the coming apocalypse. That can only be done by resolving the Arab Israeli conflict in a way that satisfies the needs and just demands of all concerned, first and foremost Palestinians and Israelis.
Good work Eyolf for taking a stand on this. It is to be admired. This situation has become far too muddled by incoherent arguments and manipulative race-orientated manoevering. The situation should be much clearer. Israel should note the hypocrisy of their actions. This does not of course vindicate any of the other political organisations of their actions either, whatever nationality or religion. But there is too much to lose for those in places of influence.
@Susan: The major difference is that the opposition against the Vietnam war was strongest within the USA, and I assume that that was a far greater factor in ending the war than whatever the international society had to say about it. Any international objections played alongside the domestic opposition.
Besides — it’s a hypothetical scenario from the beginning, of course, but I don’t think it’s unlikely that the good people at Berkeley would have embraced a boycott which also included them as long as it was clear that it was in their support, and that there was a precedent that it could be an efficient tool.
I am another Israeli (and Dylan fan) who supports your boycott.
Hazak ve’ematz.
let me start by saying, I’m an Israeli citizen, and as many other Israeli citizens
feel that what happened on the Freedom Flotilla was horrible and stupid
but the citizen of Israel like other citizen around the world don’t represent the government or its actions,
its the other way around.
a cultural boycott will not wear out governments, it will were out the people who do believe in peace and nonviolence.
you have no idea what its like down here
a cultural boycott is a protest against the people who thinks exactly like you
and it makes me wonder what are your true intentions
i love bob dylan
and I’m sure he thinks what your doing is wrong
and quit ridicules may i say
good day to you
hanna
Off course everybody can have their own opinion of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, but PLEASE can everybody stop comparing Israel’s actions or government to the nazi’s, what anything that comes close to that? It’s just unfair, and angers many jews who then start shouting anti-semites. You must understand, Hitler and his party invented a big ‘how can we wipe out an entire nation’ machine/ program. Their intent was to destroy the whole jewish nation (among others off course), and therefore DESIGNED MURDERING MACHINES. You and I both know that’s simply uncomparable with Israel. Sorry, but I always get really angered when I read those allegations. They’re only counter productive. Netanyahu is in no way Hitler!
Holland
a rectification in ‘how can we wipe out an entire nation’: the jews then were a people obviously, only now they are a nation, known as Israel!!
It isn’t clear what you mean by your “cultural boycott.” Are you not patronizing Israeli products etc. or are you not allowing those with an Israeli IP addresses on your computer to access your site, or both? The latter is not a boycott.
Hi Eyolf,
This is a hard discourse to negotiate. As you state fixed and absolute positions abound. Once a position is fixed in stone it can surely only crumbled and be swallowed by the sands of time.
To all those who have let dogma rein down from the “one side”, “this side” , “my side”, “your side” positions, you are failing to open your eyes.
Congatulations on opening a broader discussion Eyolf. A discussion that domestically and internationally perpetually shuts down into the statement of fixed positions and decisions made from the dogma of antiquated and contextually irrelevant texts and doctrines. Decisions made from fixed positions and dogmas are nothing short of amoral.
Can we all stop quoting Dylan as some sage or aurical. He is great songwriter whose work has touched everyone who searches for and finds this site. In the interviews I have seen and read he is the first to say that he intends for know one to follow him that he is no sage. If the songs touch you and give your life some meaning, self insight or connection with a greater collective then great (express it enjoy it). They and any other text are not any form of divine revelation as there is no divine revelation. God is a convenient excuse for the abrogation of personal and collective responsibility.
This is a brilliant statement. Much appreciated. Your depressing experience of Israelis (and a self-selected subset who listens to Bob Dylan at that), the uniformity and banality of a language that wants nothing to do with communication, is one that is certainly the most worrying aspect of the state of Israel. I’d say the most relevant quote from Arendt is however different:
“Evil in the Third Reich had lost the quality by which most people recognize it-the quality of temptation”
Thank you!
You have been reported as saying that any Israelis who want access to your site should “vote differently”. Why? Is a coalition government including centre-left and conservative elements beyond the limits of civilised behaviour? And what about those Israelis who, presumably, vote in a way which you, in all your wisdom, deem acceptable? And if it’s right to discriminate against all Israelis for the actions of their government then surely the Israeli blockade of Gaza must be perfectly legitimate in your eyes. After all, the people of Gaza voted in Hamas, a group which unashamedly boasts an openly antisemitic, genocidal constitution. And if the blockade is legitimate then, surely, that blockade must be enforced to be effective.
“This, and not the unbridled hatred that pours off of a lot of the mails, is the most depressing part of the reading experience. It’s so consistent that it’s scary: I’ve been met with hundreds of mouths lip-syncing different words to the same track. ”
That’s because it is! Did you ever hear of the Megaphone desktop tool? I guarantee you that is how ‘they’ are in-sync. Read on…
‘Israel’s government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chat rooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages. In the past week, nearly five-thousand members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chat rooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.’
The widespread use of the “megaphone” software allows perhaps 100,000 Jews to be alerted the moment an internet public opinion poll relating to Israel is proposed. Inventors of the “megaphone” desktop tool clearly say that a purpose of the technology is to skew poll results.
and
Joel Leyden runs the Israeli government-approved Israel News Agency and commands at least 100,000 Jewish cyber-warriors worldwide. When an Iranian newspaper in 2006 sponsored a cartoon contest critical of establishment history of the Holocaust, Leyden “used search-engine optimization [directing search-engine results], to successfully bury the Iranian content, and added text inserts into their cartoons which explained the facts of the Holocaust.” Israel’s destruction of the Iranian contest was not “education” but cyber-terrorism. It is the equivalent of one newspaper hiring thugs to smash a rival newspaper’s printing presses.
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/israelicyberwarriors.htm
Megaphone desktop tool
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
The Megaphone desktop tool is a Windows “action alert” propaganda tool developed by Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS) and distributed by World Union of Jewish Students, World Jewish Congress, The Jewish Agency for Israel, World Zionist Organization, StandWithUs, Hasbara fellowships, HonestReporting, and other pro-Israel public relations organizations. The tool was released in July during the 2006 Lebanon War. An RSS newsfeed is available so that non-Windows users may also receive the Megaphone “action alerts.
http://www.giyus.org/
Jerry
@Jair: I agree that using the word “nazi” is counter-productive and should be avoided. Better to name it by its right name: racism, segregation, oppression.
@Richard: Whether it is a boycott or not is, I would say, a technical question. To my knowledge, this way of doing a boycott is fairly new, so it may not be listed in a dictionary definition of “cultural boycott”, but the effect is the same.
@greg: Yes! I’m sick of being told what Dylan would mean about this, which frankly doesn’t matter an inch. I’m also sick of being told that he has written this song Neighbourhood Bully, as if quoting that is proving anything (other than, as Lyn says above, that Dylan is far from flawless).
@Evildoer: Thanks. I’ve read your blog with great interest, and you don’t seem to live up to your nickname (well, perhaps in some people’s opinion).
@Stefan: The “vote differently” phrase was a flippant remark that I put in at first while I still thought that the message would be read only by the regulars, who would be familiar with my casual style. When eventually the majority of reactions were from people who had no interest in Dylan, I changed it in the “Non-welcoming” message, but I forgot to change it in the news blurb on the front page of the site itself, and that’s what was cited in the media. It’s a way of saying: You are represented collectively by these people, and you are responsible for them, even if you didn’t vote for Netanyahu.
As for the “openly genocidal consititution” of Hamas: they have stated that they accept a solution with the 1967 borders of Israel and the right of those Palestinians who were driven out of the area in 1948 to return to their homes.
@Jerry: Interesting! And quite in accordance with my experience. So maybe I should set up a poll here, to test its efficiency… :)
I have now finally reached the bottom of the page and feel quite obsolete posting a reply, but nevertheless feel compelled to.
First I’d like to say that my respect for you, mr. Østrem, has expanded considerably, firmly grounded in your great chords website, by your philosophical insight and even more so because you stay clear of nihilism or inaction in the light of your insight in The Truth, and dare to take a stand.
Then, secondly, we arrive to the grave matter which moves us all. Many of the comments criticizing you made good points (which you recognized), but are also open to criticism.
About The Truth: Someone writes that Israeli citizens are being lied to, someone else writes that all critics of Israel are being lied to. Can we accept that we have all been lied to? Probably not. But interpretation is the key and we have been fed different accounts of the events.
About the boycott: Yes we should boycott Gaza, North-Korea, and many others; but I’ve yet to have my first encounter with a North-Korean online, and I way pleasantly surprised to read a comment by a Palestinian, albeit from a US server. If vinegar is not allowed into Gaza, I doubt internet will.
About the situation in Gaza: No, I’ve never been to Gaza, and I’m aware of the coloured view the media (who were actually barred from entering Gaza at critical moments) gives. I imagine (what more can I do?) that most people in Gaza are occupied by both Israel and their radical government, which is why we should pity them more, not less.
About Israel and its critics: I understand that I don’t understand Israel (or at least I hope I do), but who can expect much support after their last military operation (Cast Lead) resulted in an estimated 1300 deaths on one side and 11 on the other (four of which were by friendly fire, I may add)? Nobody will believe that Israel is the vicim it still to some extent is. Everybody just keeps yelling, justifying themselves and condemning the others based on history. I have lost faith in excuses.
Yours kindly,
Hans Dewitte
Dear Eyolf,
I have to come back at this:
“As for the’openly genocidal consititution’ of Hamas: they have stated that they accept a solution with the 1967 borders of Israel and the right of those Palestinians who were driven out of the area in 1948 to return to their homes.”
Amazing how some on the left (if that’s how you see you yourself) are endlessly sceptical about the stated intentions and secret motives of democratic states such as Israel and the United States, but are as trusting as new born lambs when it comes to dictators, rogue regimes, and international terrorist groups like Hamas!
Yes, Hamas has made this statement. But their constitution still looks forward to the day that all Jews will be killed and bases its characterization of Jews on the Protocols of Zion — that disgusting Czarist secret police forgery, endorsed by the Russian Orthodox Church, and taught as fact in a depressing number of (mostly Arab) countries — and published and promulgated by Hamas.
The Constitution also states clearly: “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”
And when al Qaida criticized Hamas for dropping its call for the destruction of Israel, and for suspending its suicide bombing campaign, Hamas basically said, we are the same as we have ever been.
Why do you take on trust the words of the leaders of a theocratic regime that endorses and carries out terrorism? To the extent that you effectively volunteer yourself as their spokesman? A regime, one might add, that consolidated its power in Gaza by a massacre of its rivals in the Fatah movement, uses children as combatants, brutally suppresses dissent, mistreats women, and persecutes homosexuals?
And you’re all like, “Hamas says this, Hamas says that.” Really Eyolf, do you have no shame? What would you say to the significant minority of Palestinians who vote for leftist secular parties? How would you defend to them your “Hamas says…”? Shouldn’t your solidarity be with them, not with Hamas?
By contrast Israel, for all its faults (and I too cannot stand the bigoted demagogue Netanyahu) allows Arabs full citizenship, has a robust democracy, allows dissent, treats women as equals (in most respects), and is increasingly tolerant of gays and lesbians.
Nor does Israel impose a “cultural boycott” of its enemies — when an officious functionary refused to allow Noam Chomsky to enter the country, the government apologised profusely and stated that Chomsky would be welcome to visit Israel at any time. Does no one involved in this distinctly uncultured boycott of Israel have a similar sense of decency?
Meanwhile, I think that you owe an apology to Israeli Dylan fans for this insulting discrimination.
@raggedclown: You may take that phrase that you quote as proof that I’m supporting Hamas as much as you wish. I thought that I had made it clear, but I’ll be happy to repeat it: I detest Hamas and any political system based on religious dogma, especially dogma which makes a distinction between us and them, and which advocates violence to reach one’s goal. The Hamas charter, had it not been a political instrument in a violent conflict, would have been just ridiculous. Now, it’s more than that.
My phrase, though, was in response to the myriad of statements that “Hamas has never recognized Israel’s right to exist”. Do I trust them? No. Do I think that they should be given the chance to be taken seriously? Definitely. Does that make me a naive, useful idiot? Up to you to decide, and fairly insignificant question. My own stand is that a little naiveté is necessary, as long as it is mixed with loads of cynicism and scepticism.
As for you conception of Israel: read this article first, then come back and discuss the matter. If you think he is wrong, point out why and where, and don’t just dismiss it as ill-willed propaganda.
Well done sir for taking a stand in your own way against the appalling Israeli regime. And thank you for a great website, which I have used and admired for several years.
best of luck to you
I am very concerned by oyur idea here. I would totally agree that israel has, in recent years, takena very badly wrong turn. But if you do, as I do genuinely want to improve the everyday situation for both Israelis and Palestinians, the way to do it is certainly not through a boycott, least a cultural boycott, whioch has no effect anyway. You merely isolate Israelis, and in isolation, as demonstrated by countless examples of nations such as North Korea, nations become more extreme and living conditions worsen. How can this possibly lead to any postive outcome. I would also add that many left wing Israelis are the ones who listen to Dylan’s music, and find it nonsensical that you thibnk barring these people from your community is at all reasonable. I am also stringently opposed to the very idea of boycotts in particualr these kind of boycotts, as an Israeli, I am, naturally very concerned about the situation with Iran but how an earth would banning the supporters of Moussavi’s opposition friom Twitter help!!!???
Zac
Thanks for your input, which I appreciate but disagree with. You state that a boycott has no effect anyway. According to people like Desmond Tutu (whom I quote not as the infallible word of God, but as a man with some experience to back his opinions), the cultural boycott did have an effect in South Africa. I said in the post above:
That may be a vain hope, as I commented earlier in the discussion, but I still hope.
I find the comparison with North Korea and Iran illustrative, precisely in this respect. The leaders of North Korea presumably couldn’t care less if they were regarded as an estimated dialogue partner by the Western cultural community, so for that reason alone, a cultural boycott would miss its goal.
If this blog were the only or most important way for the opposition in Israel to communicate with the world outside, it would also be a quite stupid move to cut that line, re. your Moussavi/twitter example. But that is not the case.
Hi Eyolf
I guess you and I or on different sides of this debate, when I say Israel has made some terribel erros, which I do believe we have as a nation, I cannot condone a comparison with SA. The situation is entirely different, Israel does not behave anything like apartied SA, just look at the knesset with arab members, we have even had an arab Speaker, and at one point, preisdent!! Also the governem,ent has just decided to triple the budget for minorities (arab and Haredi/ ultra orthdox jews).
One other thing I find very confusing is this. The mman you claim to be a supporter of is both a Jew and a Zionist, thus I find it odd in the extreme that you should be behaving in this way. I also feel that the way of chnaging opinions is simply never to attempt to silence them! What do you actualy think Isralis will do after having discovered that there voices or opinions or experiences of Dylan’s fantastic music is being discriminated against simply on the basis of the opinion you hold of Israel’s government? I can tell you, I for instance discoverd this site after having read the first article on the left-wing Haaretz website, the actual effect of this single action of yours has been to generate another storm, of coverage which in Israel portrays us the victims of yet another international assault and which highlights global attitudes which are, I beileve a problem.
On the Tutu question, my family were in fact South African/ Zimbabwean jews, we were actualy expelled and exiled from Zimbabwe before its civil war because my father was publishing articles that the aparthied regime found offensive (criticizing it) as a result we cam eto Israel as the only country which would take us in despite the threats of imprisonment if we returnmed to Zimbabwe. I actualy uterly disagree with Tutu on the subjec t of BDS firstly, I thin k there is no comparison to be had, secondly I don’t think that even in Apartheid SA they achieved anything at all. The regime was toppled rather by a realsiation that they could not cling on. In my opinion st some point the same will happen to Israel, at some stage the governement will recognise that the occupation is hopeless and achieveing nothing and will give in. However boycotting Israelis merely slows this p;rocess down, what it means is that Israelis cease to be exposed to outside opinions which is highly negative amnd critical voices are just not heard, so the entire progrma is relay hopeless.
One more thing, just to clear up the question about Hamas the reasont hat Israel will not and never can never negotiate with the Hamas is this.
Hamas has never actualy offered anyrthing more than a temporary truce, it is willing to recognise Israel in the interim, and have ’67 borders for the duration of the truce, but the truce is not a final solution. Hamas itself has said that it estimates that the truce will last 10-20 years after which it think it will have enough strength to throw the jews into the sea, and after which point it then believes it has a duty to pursue the Jews in Europe and America and exterminate all of us!!! There is no peace with these people, Fatah and Al Fayyad on the other hand are an altogether different group, I do believ that they both are very keen on peacve, but it is the Hamas, rutheless control, which culminated in their execution of all opposition that renders the situation in Gaza different. Saying that I think the blockade must end and a new method must be found, possibly European/ American soldiers checking all arriving cargo, and maing sure no weapons get in.
@Zac: Thank you for your thoughtful comments and for entering into a discussion, with arguments based on what the other person has said, instead of singleminded abuse. We may on be on different sides of the debate, but at least we are on the side of the debate, which I appreciate (a side-effect of my “explicit act of non-communication” is that I have communicated directly with more Israelis than ever before. Somehow, I think that might be a good thing for all of us).
First Hamas: How I wish there were an obvious, sane, non-corrupt, non-fundamentalist leadership on the Palestinian side, standing ready to take over and make sensible decisions, to the benefit of all. Given that “As a nation, palestinians are among the best educated people in the post-colonial world, a status made all the more significant by the adverse conditions under which it has been achieved” (Gerner/Schrodt), one might wonder why that isn’t the case. The answer is straightforward enough, and given partly in the second part of that quote, partly in the mechanics of religious dogma.
I refuse to sink to the level of believing in evil as a driving force. Power, greed, lack of empathy, complacency, sure — but evil? That, for me, means to explain human actions with reference to something beyond human, and that’s just an easy way out. We are responsible for our actions, and no god or anti-god can relieve us of that responsibility.
Hence, the demonization of the enemy leads nowhere. The demonization may not often be meant or expressed literally, as a characterization of the other as a metaphysical antithesis to Good, but even as a metaphor it draws on and evokes those connotations.
Isn’t it so, that when all human resources seem to be exhausted, the last resort is the divine? The-vain hope that when life here sucks as much as it does, there must at least be something on the other side to justify it? And when some leader whom the populace has given god-given powers over their minds tells them: “Go kill some heathen pig, and you will be greatly rewarded for your misery!”, they will do so with far greater ease than if their human condition had been allowed to — or forced to — be the measure?
I’m waxing way too eloquent and poetic here, and this is of course a way too simplistic explanation of the religious need, but when I remind of the statements of the Hamas leaders, it is with this in mind: misery breeds hopeless solutions. I think part of the answer has been indicated in an earlier comment (which I can’t locate at the moment, so I’ll quote from memory): that when the people in Gaza see that their brethren in the “other” Palestine are living in relative prosperity, they will come to their senses regarding Hamas. The other part of the answer, you indicate yourself: OK, so they only intend it as a 10–20 year truce, but a lot can happen in 20 years. Give the people of Gaza the benefit of a decent humane life, and Hamas will be history.
Sortof.
Too simplistic again, I know. Enlightenment isn’t a miracle cure; prosperity invites corruption; sixty years of hatred — much of it quite understandable — doesn’t go away overnight; the road ahead is paved with obstacles, but I don’t think there is any other way.
Then SA and apartheid: I’ve said it many times that I’m well aware of the differences between South Africa and Israel, but as long as such fundamental issues as citizenship and control of land is tied, in the legal system, to membership of a specific religous-ethnic group, it becomes an insignificant question what name to put on it. I acknowledge your personal experience and that of your family, and I agree other factors were far more important for the end of the South African regime than the cultural boycott, but I don’t find it unreasonable to assume that part of the “realisation that they could not cling on” stemmed from the growing isolation, caused, among other things, by the boycott.
In any case, I hope you’re right that “the governement will recognise that the occupation is hopeless and achieveing nothing and will give in,” in which case it would be utterly insignificant whether a cultural boycott had anything to do with it or not. In that perspective, I’ll be more than happy to be insignificant.
Lastly: I don’t claim to be a supporter of Bob Dylan. I happen to like what he does with language: open it up, create associations that are wild enough yet structured enough to assimilate the way we think, and I happen to like the way he merges music and language, thus reenforcing that assimilation. That’s all (and for me, that’s enough).
Dear Eyolf Østrem
First of all, I totally agree that those who can only manage to answer your blog with a slew of 4 letter words should not be printed, foremostly as it is an insult to both your and our intelligence (in Hebrew it sounds better…).
I don’t know if you read my 1st answer to the last blog, as I was around 123 on the list, and seemed that you had given up on the replies.
The invitation to come to the concert for Gilad Shalit opposite the Gaza Strip still stands as does the hospitality of our home, 4.7 km from the border.
So what is the status of the conflict between Israel and Gaza/Hamas? And what is the status of Gaza/Hamas? If Gaza is not a state, then they don’t have territorial waters, so to whom does the 22 mile zone from the shores of the Gaza strip belong to? Is it a “no-mans land”? Are the waters international from the coastline?
Had the turnout of events been different, let’s say 10 Israeli soldiers killed and “only” 20 flotilla members injured, would the world’s (and yours) reaction be any different? Praise the freedom fighters for killing the enemy! Jolly good show!
There is nothing that we want more than peace. I don’t want my son to die for his country; I want him to live for it. (my youngest son is serving in the IDF) .
I know you will find it hard to believe, but the 20 year old boys that boarded the Marmara did not do it with the premeditated intention of killing or even hurting anyone. There was no hate in their eyes. Ask the people on the other five ships or even those aboard the Rachel Corrie. They were just the wrong people in the wrong place.
The main difference between us (you included) and them(Islamic extremists) is the love of life.
Show me another sector of our civilization who cherish murder and martyrism more than the life of their own children. Even in Africa parents don’t send their kids to blow up buses because their situation sucks
Would it surprise you to know that over the past few days, Hamas are not letting all the supply trucks into Gaza? They are permitting only around 60% of the trucks in. Why? Because the world wants to see the suffering in Gaza, so they are purposely denying supplies to the people. This is the “humane” regime of Hamas. Did you also know that Hamas also controls the black market in the Gaza strip? Bringing supplies in from Israel is bad for business, especially when you can make an extra buck selling the same “smuggled” goods from Egypt.
Not everything Israel does (as a state) is good. Nobody here thinks we’re perfect, But not everything is done from “the evil within”. I yearn (I’m a secular Jew, I don’t pray) for the day the Palestinians will use Anwar Sadat’s words: “No more war, no more bloodshed.” We could have, as Shimon Peres says, a New Middle East.
I am including an old article by Youssef M. Ibrahim
Dear Palestinian Arab brethren:
The war with Israel is over.
You have lost. Surrender and negotiate to secure a future for your children.
We, your Arab brothers, may say until we are blue in the face that we stand by you, but the wise among you and most of us know that we are moving on, away from the tired old idea of the Palestinian Arab cause and the “eternal struggle” with Israel.
Dear friends, you and your leaders have wasted three generations trying to fight for Palestine, but the truth is the Palestine you could have had in 1948 is much bigger than the one you could have had in 1967, which in turn is much bigger than what you may have to settle for now or in another 10 years. Struggle means less land and more misery and utter loneliness.
At the moment, brothers, you would be lucky to secure a semblance of a state in that Gaza Strip into which you have all crowded, and a small part of the West Bank of the Jordan. It isn’t going to get better. Time is running out even for this much land, so here are some facts, figures, and sound advice, friends.
You hold keys, which you drag out for television interviews, to houses that do not exist or are inhabited by Israelis who have no intention of leaving Jaffa, Haifa, Tel Aviv, or West Jerusalem. You shoot old guns at modern Israeli tanks and American-made fighter jets, doing virtually no harm to Israel while bringing the wrath of its mighty army down upon you. You fire ridiculously inept Kassam rockets that cause little destruction and delude yourselves into thinking this is a war of liberation. Your government, your social institutions, your schools, and your economy are all in ruins.
Your young people are growing up illiterate, ill, and bent on rites of death and suicide, while you, in effect, are living on the kindness of foreigners, including America and the United Nations. Every day your officials must beg for your daily bread, dependent on relief trucks that carry food and medicine into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, while your criminal Muslim fundamentalist Hamas government continues to fan the flames of a war it can neither fight nor hope to win.
In other words, brothers, you are down, out, and alone in a burnt-out landscape that is shrinking by the day.
What kind of struggle is this? Is it worth waging at all? More important, what kind of miserable future does it portend for your children, the fourth or fifth generation of the Arab world’s have-nots?
We, your Arab brothers, have moved on.
Those of us who have oil money are busy accumulating wealth and building housing, luxury developments, state-of-the-art universities and schools, and new highways and byways. Those of us who share borders with Israel, such as Egypt and Jordan, have signed a peace treaty with it and are not going to war for you any time soon. Those of us who are far away, in places like North Africa and Iraq, frankly could not care less about what happens to you.
Only Syria continues to feed your fantasies that someday it will join you in liberating Palestine, even though a huge chunk of its territory, the entire Golan Heights, was taken by Israel in 1967 and annexed. The Syrians, my friends, will gladly fight down to the last Palestinian Arab.
Before you got stuck with this Hamas crowd, another cheating, conniving, leader of yours, Yasser Arafat, sold you a rotten bill of goods — more pain, greater corruption, and millions stolen by his relatives — while your children played in the sewers of Gaza.
The war is over. Why not let a new future begin?
Shalom
Really, I entered on your blog after see a mention on an Israeli media.
I participate on a movement that try to integrate palestinian and israelies, share feelings about the war and a large list of common experiences.
In 90% of the cases we don’t have a common language. I’m only speek hebrew and few arabic words.
So… what is the common language?
The music, the pictures, the arts (and the food too!).
I can understand and share part of your feelings about the palestine people. But boycoot it’s not creative, don’t resolve the problem, and only create resentments.
I don’t ask you change your mind, or learn my Truth, I ask you try to find a way to change the people mind to see that there are people on the two sides of the conflict.
No to Gaza blockade.
No to Israel blockade.
Peace for us (and music too!)
btw… I don’t like Dylan music :-)
Hey Eyolf,
I think thisn discussion has probabaly reached its end, as you have laid your cards out, and me mine.
One last thing though.
In my opinions, the day Israel, and Israleis stop yearning for a peaceful settlement, which most of us still do, I have even had that experience in poor ceaselessly and still bombarded Sderot, is the day Israel becomes Apartheid, until that day, there is no comparison to be had. There are Arab MKs, there are arab judges, Arabs are free to live wherever they will accross Israel. Arabic is an official languange, and like I have said many arabs are increasingly wealthy particulalry the Druze, all of whom have welcomed being Isralei citizens and who are now as wealthy as Jews! Every dya an ever increasing number of Arabs graduate from Israel’s top academic institutions and this I feel forms a major distinction with Apartheid. Further it is a credit to israel and its democratic ways that there are Israeli MKs who openly call for a blockade to be started and various other things I deeply oppose. It is in my opinion this which marks Israel out from its other Arab neighbours, none of whom have ashread of democracy (imagine what would happen to an Iranian who called for sanctions!!) neither do they have freedom of religion (look at the situation in iran for the poor ceaslessly persecuted Bahai’is). Neither do they have much development or wealth, as a result of horrific corruption. In comparison to this Israel has the highest number of Nobel prizes per capita in the world, publishes more books per capita than any other nation, has more scientists, more entrepreneuers, more venture capital…and so on, and all this despite the fac the majority of Israelis arrived in israel in much the same way Palestinians arrived in the west Bank having been thrown out of Arab lands because they were Jews, and in fact unlike the Palestinians, thousands were murdered on the way, and, further, more Jews were kicked out by the arabs than Arabs fled and were kicked out by the Jews! A fact often lost on the outsuide world, sderot is a city built as a refugee camp so is mmost of the South and North of Israle, the difference is that we have concentrated on development on education while Arafat squandered everything on his wife and Paris!!!!
Thanks
zac
Thank you for this balanced and toughtful report. Unfortunately we’re in the middle of building up tensions that can lead to a major war and reasonable voices like yours will be ignored.
May God help us all. (The people of Israel too, they will suffer a lot when their leaders will have pushed the button.)
Stupid question: Do you have any reference for the “Gaza Restaurant Menu” fake? I’d like to see the patentness of the patent lies myself. Thank you.
@Heiner: I don’t have the time to dig up the reference now: there was a concession (I think perhaps reported in Haaretz) from the GPO that the menu itself was bogus — and in any case, that the press release was a distasteful joke. And even if the menu itself is genuine (which dosen’t really matter very much), taking it as evidence that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, is stupid beyond belief.
Why have you have put a blockade on responses to your blog? It is okay for you to put a blockade to protect yourself but its not okay for Israel to do so? you are preventing the opportunity for open dialogue and communication.
@MY: Calling me names, and not responding to what is said in the blog posts you respond to but regurgitating what has already been said by countless others, is not the way to have your comment accepted.
I accepted this post both in order to repeat and emphasise this statement, and to follow the device “Expose Stupidity — it can’t be argued with”.
(And just to make it clear, to those who need it written out: comparing a personal soap-box to a military regime is so stupid that I don’t even care to argue with it.)
Thank you for a very good site and blog. I truly support your boycott and I really think you are doing what few persons and state for that matter dares to do – act morally and try to prevent Israel from further oppression against the Palestinian civil society. Thanks again and I hope you don’t stop fighting because of some all idiots out there that insult you.
Thank you very much. I couldn’t find it either. Not sure if I agree that it doesn’t matter, after all this was your one example of the many patent lies from Israel you have to put up with.
If I may, let me ask some more questions. You may think you’ve answered them already, but ask you to consider them one more time:
What do you take as evidence of a humanitarian crisis?
What other patent lies from the Israeli government did you have to put up with?
When and where did Israel kill “thousands of semi-dark-skinned Achmeds”?
Why don’t you write about the things that are genuinely much worse? Kyrgyzstan. Congo. Darfur. North Korea? In all of those places, at least a few hundred people died in the last weeks. Nothing of that kind is happening in Gaza or anywhere in the middle east. And yet, Israel is what people talk about. Isn’t this, among other things, an interesting sociological phenomenon?
Hi Eyolf,
I support your decision. Many have complained that you are punishing Israelis. As far as i understand it no one is punishing anyone here, its a symbolic stand.
I would like to draw your attention to one thing though. That is the painting of Hamas in too broad strokes. Such simplification distorts the reality, and solutions do not emerge in such situations.
Close to 90% and above of Hamas’s revenue has continued to support hospitals, schools, creches and other community services, since its inception. It is only later, in the early 90s that Hamas turned violent. To put
that in perspective one should consider how many schools, hospitals and other social welfare institutions have Israel funded in Gaza.
This is not to say that a wing of Hamas is not a militant organization. It is. But that is not the whole picture, and ignoring it wont benefit anyone. Hamas won the election primarily due the entrenched corruption in Fatah, its failure to deliver results and because of Hamas’s civic welfare and educational services.
Was it really realistic of Israel to expect that there will not be any backlash to the years of brutal occupation and abuse, just by disengaging from devastated piece of land. Unless there is reparations and compensations even if symbolic ones, unless the wronged feel their grievances have been given due respect people will keep expressing their anger. While a lot of noise is made about the rockets fired by Hamas, it pales in comparison to the devastation and destruction meted out by Israel in the past that continues today. As an instrument of destruction those rockets are as impotent as you can get, and thankfully so.
A standard excuse is that Hamas responded with terror to Israel’s gift of freedom. That too hides a lot of what went on, though Israel did disengage, its psy ops continued to be operational, terrorizing the population with night time sonic booms, total ghettoization, etc.
It has also been claimed in the comments section that the Arab citizens have equal rights in Israel. That is not the case. First of all Israel has refused to ratify a constitution in order to avoid confronting the double standards of its laws, both civil and criminal. Arab citizens are governed by different set of permits and laws, whereas Palestinians do not even have access to the civil courts.
What happens today is something the world has witnessed in the past: A dominant aggressor suffering from a persecution complex. It wants to see itself as the victim, and thereby justify its wanton day to day violence by branding whatever it wishes to be a threat. Sure Israel has a right to protect itself, but not from hallucinated threats or intentionally misbranded provocations. Sure the Jewish people suffered through one of the worst crimes of humanity, but it wasnt the Palestinian’s fault, so why do it to them ?
Because they are the weaker one ?
You, my friend, are excellent. I have quite strong opinions on this matter and, had I been in your position, would have handled such criticism in a much trollier, more “Suck sh!t, I’m the webmaster” kind of way.
I take my hat off to the way in which you are calmly explaining your views, whilst still showing the whiny Israeli lie mongers for the time-wasters they are. Keep up the hard work, and keep up that IP block.
PS – what is the best way to set up such a block? Teaching this could be the next step – disconnecting Israel from the useful parts of the internet. Pity Zuckerberg is Jewish – IP blocking facebook would be the golden goose of DoS.
Thank you for your courage and willingness to act.
The treaty of Versailles and WWII taught us two things about International Relations: to criminalise and impose punishment upon an entire race of people will serve only to antagonise those people and entrench hatred. Such blanket measures can do nothing but inflame defensive nationalism. No doubt many Israelis, including those of progressive and liberal views, will feel persecuted by this act, on the basis of their nationality. There are other ways of speaking out against and condemning action we feel to be wrong, wherever it comes from. Consequently I feel that your boycott is inappropriate and furthermore is not constructive. That is not to say that your personal opinion is wrong: indeed it is not for me to judge, except to say that well measured and rational debate and criticism is vitally important.
Comparisons with the SA apartheid boycott are inappropriate: that was directed against a ruling minority, not a nation itself.
I am impressed with your measured, open, and rational response. It was that that drove me to comment here (something I rarely do). You have succeeded in nurturing some worthwhile debate.