Neighbourhood Bully indeed
I’m too enraged to write anything coherent, but beginning yesterday, I’m running my own private boycott of the state of Israel and anything/-one associated with it, and I urge everyone to do the same.
A fascist, belligerent regime is not justifiable by any past, no matter how cruel and injust it has been. A rotten childhood does not justify being an asshole.
At the same time, I lament my own belated reaction: why is it that Israel may kill thousands of semi-dark-skinned Achmeds and Muhammeds without anyone raising a brow, but when a couple of Swedish authors are drawn physically into the firing line, the world gets on its feet?
It’s sickening.
Update: When news of the cultural boycott was publicized on an Israeli news site, the comment section virtually exploded. I decided that it was probably a good idea to turn off automatic publication of comments. I’ve now gone through the whole thing, and decided to let it all through. It’s not pretty, but quite interesting.
One correction of terminology: In one of the comments, I refer to the soldiers who boarded the Flotilla as “pirates”. I’ve learned that piracy is not the correct term, since that only applies to civilians acting on their own behalf. Since this was a nation’s armed forces, who acted on behalf of their country, the correct term is “an illegal act of war”. Changing the terminology may change the associations the words bring with them, but it does not change the contents of the statement.
June 2nd, 2010 at 09:24
Hi Eyolf,
I could not agree more fully. The incredible thing is that, as I’m sure you are all too aware, ‘Neighborhood Bully’ was written in support of Israel. The song argues that Israel has not received recognition for all the hard work it does, standing up with force for what is right. A jarring false-step for Dylan that must surely haunt him to this day, given how the song has been used since he wrote it.
Thank you for an awesome website.
David
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:09
Gotta disagree here. Maybe it is because I am German. But how is Israel killing thousands?
And really, how is trying to smuggle stuff being “drawn into the firing line.”? Even the organizers of that ship-thing say it isn’t about helping the people of Gaza — which makes sense, since they get plenty of goods anyway, by land.
To me, the most sickening thing is that the parents of Gilad Shahid offered to persuade the Israeli government to let the ships through (together with whatever is on board, uncontrolled), if only they can send a few _freaking letters_ to their son. The answer was negative. Talk about human rights activists!
June 2nd, 2010 at 20:02
Right, how dare the IDF defend themselves against some ships who refuse to be searched and attack IDF troops when boarded.
It’s an outrage.
Now, it’s ok that Hamas sends missles into Sderot and kills schoolchildren, those goddamn Israeli children.
June 3rd, 2010 at 01:13
There is no room for interpretation here.
In international waters a flotilla full of humanitarian aid and unarmed civialians was boarded by members of the fourth largest army in the world. Crew members armed with deck furniture and cutlery were murdered by highly-trained soldiers with guns.
No matter how you justify Israel’s terrorising of Palestinian civilians (maybe you can call Palestinian men, women and children “Hamas”) that is not the issue here. This was a blow against all peaceful protestors.
Zionism is racism.
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:55
Oisín,
I am afraid you are somewhat mistaken. Had you listened to Bob Dylan’s Theme Time Radio Hour season 1, episode 33, you’d know that “the seven largest armies in the world are: China, India, North Korea, South Koria, Pakistan, USA and Vietnam”.
Also, as I said before: This “flotilla” had nothing to do with humanitarian aid. Even its organizers acknowledged that. And you cannot possibly be serious about “deck furniture and cutlery”. Haven’t you seen the videos of that incident? I wouldn’t call the IHH people civilians either, but that may be a different story.
Thirdly, the international waters. I am not sure about the international law here, some say this, others that. But this cannot be be main issue: These ships had the clear intention of moving into Israeli waters. Would anyones take on what happened change if Israel had waited a few more hours? The Israelis had radio contact with these ships and offered to let them deliver their goods (at least the non-military part of it) by land. They declined, because they hoped for a media story like this.
And what is it with accusing Israel of terrorising Palestinian civilians and then saying this is not the issue? That’s kind of a backstabbing way of arguing. I cannot help but feel that “antizionism” is just plain old antisemitism. Where is the moral fervor when people die without any Jews around?
June 3rd, 2010 at 23:19
Eh… how Israel is killing thousands? Well, directly, with guns and helicopters, but even more so indirectly, through a blockade which is not only dubious by international standards and therefore condemned by the UN and most of the international society (the USA, of course, being the exception), but which also, and more importantly, makes living conditions for the people in Gaza even more difficult than they were before (and dying conditions favourable).
Sadly, if stupidity is repeated often enough, people will start to believe there is something to it. Where did you get the idea that it was not a humanitarian action? And that even the organizers acknowledge that? Holy crap. Nobody would claim that it’s only about the food and construction materials. Sadly, a dead Palestinian is less visible than a resourceful North European. It’s also about pressurizing to bring this example of state terrorism to an end, through international opinion, and there, a whitie weighs a million times heavier than a semite, especially a Palestinian one.
That has been openly acknowledged by the organizers, but to claim that it’s not humanitarian is either disrespectful or stupid, or both.
“They get plenty of goods anyway, by land”? No they don’t. According to the UN, the supplies that Israel lets through is 1/4 of what is needeed. “Mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages have left four in five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid,” according to the Amnesty International.
The insinuation that the shipment had a military purpose is again rhetorical stupidity. Rhetorical by conveying a message in a roundabout manner (by alluding to the “non-military” part of the delivery; this is the “Have you stopped beating your wife?” line of argumentation); and stupid by swallowing the rhetorics of others without thinking. Israel prevents cement and other building materials from reaching Gaza, claiming that they will be used to make smuggling tunnels for explosives and arms. The convoy contained cement. Does that make it a military expedition? Would Israel have let it through the inspection that they so generously offered? How does one (re-)establish an infrastructure — and one that allows people who have been living in occupation and war all their lives to break out of the “You beat me, I beat you” kind of logic — without the basics of food and a roof over one’s head?
Also, there is no dispute of the “international waters” issue. It’s not “some say this, some say that”. Israel, the day before the attack, unilaterally claimed a 68-mile “security zone”, effect immediate. Israel boarded ships in international waters with no other justification than their own. Period. Stop polluting the discussion with inanities, please.
For the record, I’d like to see Hamas in an even hotter hell than where they currently are; I wish the people of Gaza had chosen their leaders more wisely, and I think it would be a wise thing for them to stop firing their home-made tin-can grenades over the border. Swedish columnist Wolfgang Hansson expresses it quite precisely: “With enemies like Israel, Hamas doesn’t need any friends.” That doesn’t mean that the people of Gaza couldn’t need a helping hand.
June 4th, 2010 at 13:40
Hi,
I originally came to this site for reading about latex, but came across this post and I had to reply because, well, I’m an Israeli.
First of, Israel is a democracy, and the only one here in the middle east (so no, not a ‘fascist belligerent regime’).
About people being killed- well, unfortunately thousands of Israelis have been killed in terror attacks too. While the Paletinian terrorists aim mostly against civilian targets, Israel tries to target mainly terrorist, which more often than not use civilians as a protective shield.
The blockade itself hasn’t existed before Hamas took over Gaza- a regime that denies Israel’s right to exist and directly attacks it’s civilians (including my house) with rockets. There is no blockade on the Western territory which is under the Palestinian authority rule. In addition, Gaza shares a border with Egypt which is not under any Israeli control- but the Egyptians themselves close the border because fear of terrorist activity around the borders.
On the issue of legality, IANAL , but according -http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMSU (section V) the IDF actions were well justified, international waters or not. The fact that only 9 Jihad activist (not peace mind you- when you’re trying to hit someone with a large metal pole or throw him off a deck, peace is the last thing on your mind) are proof to the IDF soldiers restraint.
Again, the blockade exists because of Israel’s security needs. Once the citizens of Gaza throw of this terrorist Hamas regime, it will be better for all of us.
June 4th, 2010 at 15:36
There we go again. Notwithstanding your claim that Israel is killing thousands with guns and helicopters: Do you really think thousands of people in Gaza die because of the blockade? The inhabitants of the Gaza Strip receive more international aid per capita than any population on this planet. They receive enough to be able to reject the load of these ships, when Israel brought them by land. They receive enough to be able to have Restaurants like this. Do an image search of “gaza market” to see more about the dire situation in this “open air concentration camp”. Of course they are entitled to all the wealth they can get, but … killing thousands? Is Egypt killing at least a few hundred then?
I am not trying to be disrespectful or stupid, and there is no need for such ad hominem attacks.
“Breaking the siege” was a more important goal to the “Free Gaza” organizers than giving supplies to the people of Gaza. This was acknowledged, by words, and, much louder, by actions. I cannot regard this as a humanitarian action. Unless you count general political action to better the lot of some people as “humanitarian action”, but then you’d have to include Israel’s blockade itself as an humanitarian action …
It is sad to say and may come off as stupid indeed, but I don’t believe the UN or AI could be regarded as trustworthy with regards to the middle east conflict. Both organizations are not neutral, although maybe for different reasons. Organizations like AI love the middle east for some reason and send so many “helpers” there that they’ll soon begin to stand on each other’s feet. (Compare this with some region that’s really in need of help, e.g. Ruanda or North Korea (read that link only if you don’t want to eat for the rest of the day.
As for the controlling of material that could (would?) be used to attack Israel: I seem to share Joe Biden’s take on that. Although I don’t know whether that rids me of the “rhetorical stupidity” label. But actually I think the real purpose of this undertaking was to create a media scandal like we have one now. Please note, for instance, how fast the Hamas web site has responded, even making fun of the Fatah media for not talking about the incident for a couple of hours. (I don’t have an English link for that ATM, but try some googling.) This fits together well with the fact that the shipload itself does not seem to be too interesting to the Hamas government and that the humanitarian sailors refused to take the secure although unspectacular land route offered by Israel.
International waters: Yes, it happened in international waters. Does that change your judgement of the incident? If so, google “Helsinki principles on the law of maritime neutrality”. For instance, here. I don’t know anything about that, this is why I said a read conflicting statements about this.
The people of Gaza could use a helping hand indeed. I am not saying was Israel did here was clever or advisable. But way is complaining about Israel so much more sexy then complaining about the real evildoers of the world? That’s not a rhetorical question — I find it really astonishing. And I cannot help but feel this has something to do with there being Jews involved. At least this is a parsimonious rule for predicting attention of human suffering.
June 5th, 2010 at 03:55
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” Albert Einstein
What we are seeing in this blog on this topic is the dialectic arguements that have been pervasive in the “Jewish State” / “Palestinian problem” for the last century.
We have displaced and persecuted people on both sides of the arguement. The state of Isreal is the manifestation of colonisation by displaced and persecuted people. How have they manifested the state? They have used the displacement and persecution of others, the Palestinians. The consiousness that has manifested the state is the consiousness created by centuries of persecution and displacement and these processes and thought patterns dominate the actions of the state.
Isreal is not a democracy for the peoples it governs. It is governing/conntrolling the lives of millions who have now vote or say in how that power is exercised. They are teaching generations of palestinians that power comes from the barrell of gun and perpetuating the very conciousness from which they seek salvation.
A “Jewish” state is abhorant as an “Islamist” or “Christian” state. governemnt and nation if this is how we define geographic distribution must be inclusive and plural. The “Christian” state of the USA imprisons more persons than any other in the world by any statistical measure; these state captured slaves power the economies of regions with “free” or slave labour.
End dogma.
I live in country where for almost two centuries the state has perpetrated, consciously or not, genocide on its indigenous people. Until we understand and value all of the beliefs, purposes and desires of our people we will not move forward.
Reconcilaition is a slow process and a conscious activity. Sadly the leaders of Isreal and Palistine, and many governments and organistions fear change and cling to either a misconcived past oran unrealistic/unachievable future. We need to create the future and the success of the future will not come from clinging to the consioucness of the past.
Who is right and who is wrong is far less importantquestion than what can we do better.
June 5th, 2010 at 12:28
@greg:
“Isreal is not a democracy for the peoples it governs. It is governing/conntrolling the lives of millions who have now vote or say in how that power is exercised.
A “Jewish” state is abhorant as an “Islamist” or “Christian” state”
Sorry, Israel does not govern Gaza or the West bank and has no territorial claims over palestinian governed cities. The Arab minority in Israel recieves equal and full citizen rights.
The term “Jewish state” refers to the Jewish (Hebrew) nation, and not to the religion, but I see how the term might be confusing. Just as Denmark is the homelandof the Danish people, Israel is the Homeland of the Jewish (Hebrew) people.
Israel does not “persecute” Palestinians, and this conflict did not arise because of some weird psychological issues. this is a war, unfortunately.
I totally agree with your last sentence, of course.
June 5th, 2010 at 12:51
What astonished me personally was the fashion in which the entire event was immediately abstracted; almost overnight, the attack on the Freedom Flotilla transformed from a “real” historical event to what a neurolinguist might call an Actor, perhaps an Ideology. As this thread has already shown, the sympathizers have already discerned the “true meaning” of the attack, the “true meaning” of the flotilla’s mission, the “true meaning” of Israel and it’s place in the Middle East; they have pierced to the dark heart of the matter and now they know the Truth, and they know the Truth because – as they have demonstrated – the “true meaning” of the event is unattainable without the “correct” contextualization. Taken on it’s own, the historical event was a plain and banal horror – a ship in international waters headed towards a sovereign state crewed by an international humanitarian society was boarded by armed gunmen, the crew defended themselves with chairs and cutlery and iron bars, the gunmen opened fire.
With the correct context, though, ah… it’s a different story…
Overnight, “the Real became the Image, and the Image was imbued Realness.” The forces will continue to post meaningless and grainy footage all over Youtube, there will be squabbling over doctoring and there will be squabbling over freeze-frames – in the end, though, it will be pointless. The event has transcended itself. Undoubtedly there will be responses to this post, and those responses will be loud – louder than I could ever be – and I have taken a quote from heiner’s post,
“And I cannot help but feel this has something to do with there being Jews involved.”
And so it begins.
Like picking a fresh apple from a bough, biting into it and finding that it is wax. Then chewing, relishing the taste and saying, “Wow. Best apple ever.”
I love the site, Eyolf.
June 6th, 2010 at 01:56
@Heiner: Thanks for proving my point so eloquently. The restaurant that you link to is the one that the Israeli government press office produced the week before the assault on Ship to Gaza to prove that there is no shortage of food in Gaza. The menu they “cited” from has was a fake, but you have more trust in it than in the AI and the UN. Sigh.
June 6th, 2010 at 14:39
to Oren,
I am happy that we have some agreement. What can be done better, to make things better? What does Oren as an Isreali do to make things better?
All countires have their own pathologies. I live in country that was subjected to invasion and occupation by British Colonial Imperialism. At school I was taught a history that spoke of discovery and pioneering settlement. As a child in my family I was told of the struggles of my Irish ancestors and the discrimantion and persecution they suffered even as a powerless majority of the population in both colonial and modern Australia; it is only my generation (born late sixties) that has transended (or is oblovious) to these class/religious demograhic battles and bigotry.
As a young adult I learned of the war/s that occured at the time of invasion and occupation. As a nation Australia has moved slowly toward reconciliation with its indigenous peoples, listening to and valuing their stories. This path has been met with much resistance, even a recent Prime Minister who refused to recognise the history of invasion that he called a “black arm band” view of history.
The stories of Isreal is both older and much younger than Australia’s. Australia has many histories, some are contained in the two hundred years old and others that span over sixty thousand; many of the histories are lost and many are known to only a few. I believe Australia will one day achieve reconciliation for its people and its histories.
Isreal likewise has many histories. It has a history some of some sixty years as a nation state or in your words a Jewish homeland. It also has the history of all the people who occupy its land regardless of religion or state surely it is a homeland for these people too.
Where is Israel’s reconciliation to found? The continued use of the language and action of colonial imperialism – settlement, occupation and territorial governement will not premote reconciliation.
Yes, it is war. War is the pathology of a conflicted state/s. Of course you must defend your people, It is more than merely defense? Why do you have to defend yourself? Surely being at war implies psychological and behavioural dysfunction be it individual or collective.
Don’t be put out! It is not judgement it is observation. Humanity and societies the world over are dysfunctional, just more extreme and obvious in some.
Do you have insights to the normality of the psychology of the conflict?
June 6th, 2010 at 14:48
Great site Eyolf. I have been using the Dylan tabs for a couple of years; the tunings and tabs you provide are great.
I have not really checked your blog prior to the other day and look forward to tracking it and contributing more in the future.
June 6th, 2010 at 19:40
@greg: looking forward to it! And thanks for your contributions to the discussion. I have a paper to prepare for tomorrow, so I don’t have time to sit down and write extended comments right now, but I’ll be back.
June 6th, 2010 at 19:46
Dear Mr. Østrem
I have been using your Dylan site for years now, and found it a real important site to all those who appreciate modern culture, spirit and music.
You can imagine how shocked I was to meet your ‘Access denied’ message,
And its attitude, telling me I’m not good enough to use it anymore being
Part of the wrong nation who is “demonstrating absurd inhumanity in its actions” …
Well, I’m not a nationalist, and I never vote (certainty not for Natniaho), and yet
I find it necessary to explain to you how wrong sometimes right can be.
You see, your action is violent too, and it’s a prejudgment derived by anger.
I am, my self, against the blockade on Gaza, understanding it is not an acceptable solution
As I’m against any other sort of violence (including bombing my town with missiles,or kidnapping and jihad terror attacks)
But let me tell you sir,
Life in the Middle East is far more complicated to be judged from where you are,
You don’t see all the facts; you do not understand the amount of hate, Suspiciousness, Religious Fanaticism and ignorance on both sides.
You are not aware to how the peace activists
Are being used by fanatics who have nothing to do with human rights the way you see them.
By your truly good will to support the poor people in Gaza, you end up supporting those who Wants to put this place on flames, and that their goal is war and death.
Gandhi said: an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.
Your boycott is working Against all sides, separating between us, the people, sane people on the two sides, and pushing us into the hands of those who cultivate fear And hatred.
music bring people together, that is its holly purpose, and should never
be chained to politics.
I call you to think again about your action and its implications, while trying to ignore all the brainwash Of the media giving a naive picture of good vs evil.
May this little land know better days.
Peace.
Omer
June 6th, 2010 at 19:57
@BR:
That not factual at all. International waters had nothing to do with- the ship was trying to breach a blockade- so stopping it is justifiable. Look at the link I provided. The soldiers borded themselves in order to *minimize* casualties- Israel could torpedo the ship (I wonder, North Korea did just that, killed 46 and didn’t even get a slap on the wrist), or could tow it forcefully, disable it’s engine and leave it stranded in the middle of the sea. The terrorists on board initiated the violence.
The fact that the soldiers managed to kill only 9 violent rioters among dozens while their friends are brutally beaten is amazing to me.
@ Eyolf
It seems that Heiner is right and I don’t find the link claiming the restaurant is a spoof. It even appears on Lonely Planet. There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That doesn’t mean economic situation is good, but I guess that’s what you get when you elect religious terrorist nuts as your leader. meanwhile, GDP growth was 8% (!) in the west bank just last year
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/08/hamas-taxes-gaza
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html
@greg
reconciliation would be great, when we get to a point we’re 200 years after we made peace, if that’s possible. RIght now it’s hard, taking into account the fact that Palestinian leaders deny Israel’s right to even exist. the control Israel exerts over the PA is for defense and lack of other possibility.
The use of the term “colonial imperialism” is basically propaganda. If you were moving to Perth, would you be “colonizing”?
As for psychological pathology:
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=The+Day+of+Judgement+will+not+come+about+until+Muslims+fight+the+Jews
(I’m not posting a direct link so you can pick for yourself)
June 6th, 2010 at 19:58
@omer: How exactly is my “action violent too”? And what do you know about my “prejudgement” and “anger”?
June 6th, 2010 at 20:02
@oren: I didn’t say the restaurant itself is spoof, but its menu, which has indeed been exposed as a fabrication by the government Press Office.
June 6th, 2010 at 21:52
Dear Mr. Østrem
I know about your anger because you open your post by mentioning it.
i say it is a prejudgement, because I believe you never been to Israel or Gaza strip. Am I wrong?
now how come i Accuse you for being violent?
Look.
Denying me from Dylan’s cultural work while discriminating me for my origin,
Based on the assumption you are more moral then I am, there for in a position to judge me, is a very violent and arrogant action.
Such generalization is assaulting me as a private person.
I can promise you this: the Israeli government And the IDF are not interested in Dylan’s chords.
So, don’t fear if you hear a foreign sound to your ear..
It’s alright, Eyolf, I’m only sighing.
June 6th, 2010 at 22:29
> I know about your anger because you open your post by mentioning it.
> i say it is a prejudgement, because I believe you never been to Israel or Gaza strip. Am I wrong?
You claim much more than that by tying the three things together: you’re saying that my action is a prejudgement derived by anger. FYI, my action was something quite separate from the blog post, and done after much deliberation and not in a state of anger.
> now how come i Accuse you for being violent?
> Look.
> Denying me from Dylan’s cultural work while discriminating me for my origin,
I’m neither: you have full access to Dylan’s cultural work, and it’s not your origin but your country and the people that you — despite all the reasonable and sensible things you say — allow to represent you, and who perform crimes which are detestable to me, that i react against.
> Based on the assumption you are more moral then I am, there for in a position to judge me, is a very violent and arrogant action.
I make no such assumption, I just decide for myself who I want to communicate and share with. That is not an act of violence, and to call it so is to distort reality.
> Such generalization is assaulting me as a private person.
No, it’s challenging you — not assaulting you.
June 7th, 2010 at 01:19
to Omer
try voting and stop turning your back on the actions of your government. I didn’t vote for them because I don’t vote doesn’t wash. Be counted!
To Oren,
if I want to move to Perth I can. If I want to move to the land owned and controlled by indigenous people in my country (there are still some and in some they retain tribal law too) then I need their permission. If I I take bulldozers to any land to develop it then I need clearence from all stakeholders govt, private and native title holders if it has been established (common law and property rights have a place in a just society). If I and all the Irish decendants in Australia want to return to Ireland and set up a new state inside it borbers that would be colonisation.
I understand that the Arab world and Hamas have difficulty in or recognise the legitimacy of Isreal as a state. I structured my arguement for the purpose of eliciting that response from you. It is a core part of the deadlock. It is part of the frozen mindset on both sides of the fence. Isreal will not achieve any piece until it recognises that perhaps it is not a legitimate state in its current form and that if it wants to be regarded as legitamate may require comprehenive change.
I can’t imagine Isreal surviving a to hundred year road to reconcilliation. The difficult thing will be changing in a dispute ruled by dogma. Palestine (hamas) doesn’t recognise Isreal as legitimate, Does Isreal recognise the legitamacy of Palestine as state?
June 7th, 2010 at 04:42
‘The Arab minority in Israel recieves equal and full citizen rights.’
Not quite true. Arabs within Israel have no right to reside in the state with a partner who is from the West Bank or Gaza. Racist much?
‘international waters had nothing to do with- the ship was trying to breach a blockade- so stopping it is justifiable.’
also incorrect. israel likes to pretend that they can justify their actions under the san remo manual on international law applicable to armed conflicts at sea. they can’t. the blockade no longer has any legal OR moral basis because israel unilaterally declared a ceasefire in january of 2009, which means that they’re not engaged in armed conflict with Hamas, so they have no right to continue the blockade and institute actions like the commandeering of the flotilla.
again and again israel uses international law to legitimate its acts, but when it is asked to be judged by those very same standards, it cries victimhood.
June 7th, 2010 at 05:44
@ Eyolf:
I say your action is based on not knowing the facts. All your information about the situation is been received from a very one-sided media,
and I can ensure you with hand on heart you are being manipulated Badly.
It is my promise to you that had you visited here seeing things as they are you would speak differently. Israel is no saint, BUT certainly not the murderous evil force you are shown on television.
I say your action is violent because it is discriminating people based NOT on who they are But on what you think about them,
without ever meeting them, just base on rumors an TV.
By this action you are contributing to the darkness in the world.
It is pure prejudice in a mask of human rights. sorry.
It is very easy to live in Europe, far from the crazy middle east, and think you can tell who is right based on what you see on tv, but you only see what they want you to see, being misled, on purpose by those who propagate hate.
so, what i say is that your action is only spreading the hate, putting a wall between people, and not serving your goal at all.
And you saying had I vote better things would be different clearly shows how little you understand the reality in the middle east.
@ Greg:
you are naive. governments make the problem. the only solution will come from the people. We must stop buying the bullshit governments and newspapers sell
Us and start trying to live with each other as one race.
This boycott of yours is pulling as away from our goal.
there are many ways to help, fighting fire with fire is not one of them.
i will repeat Gandhi’s saying: an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.
may peace come upon this land
June 7th, 2010 at 07:52
Eyolf, don’t be ridiculous.
You call Israel a fascist government, meanwhile you are blocking Israelis from expressing themselves and their love of Dylan.
Please look at both sides of the story, and realize your boycott is only making things worse.
June 7th, 2010 at 08:26
@mark:
The constraint is not race-based, but origin-based- Israel will not give citizenship by marriage if the spouse is from the Palestinian authority, an entity we are in armed conflict with. There’s no rule precluding marrying an Egyptian and her/him coming to Israel. The other stuff you said just don’t make sense to me- the unilateral ceasefire, which is not even relevant anymore, deals with withdrawing forces, and not and end to any armed conflict (Hamas fired rockets at my hometown just a week before the flotilla incident)
@ Greg:
Wherever Israelis settle- the land is controlled and owned by Israeli, and not by palestinains. Israel doesn’t impose restrictions on it’s citizens, whether Jewish or Arab, to live and settle anywhere in Israeli controlled areas (i.e- not under PA control). On the other hand, Obama and the PA expect the whole west bank to be free of Jews.
BTW- it is somwhat implicit in your argument that somehow Palestinian Arab are “indigenous” and Jews are not. That is again propaganda- firstly, because the Hebrew/Jewish people lived in Israel originally, second because there has been a Jewish population in Israel throughout the exile, and third, because alot of “Palestinian” Arabs are immigrant by themselves- Yasser Araffat for instance, is an Egyptian.
Israel never opposed founding of an Arab state on part of the land of Israel- and it says so even in the Israeli declaration of independance. furthermore- Israel could not have prevented it even if they wanted to in 1948. Actually, it was the other Arab countries (Jordan, Egypt) that conquered and occupied the areas meant for another independant Arab state.
I, and vast majority of Israelis, don’t oppose about them having a state of their own, as long as they acknowledge our right. Why should we, and why should I care what they do?
For Hamas, there is nothing Israel can do to be ‘legitimate’, than to cease to exist.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:28
I didn’t notice until now, as at the beginning I didn’t understand Omer’s comment about the ‘Access Denied’ message.
You have no moral highground over here, Eyolf. You’re the bully quite frankly. You’re indiscriminately boycotting, and for a reason you apparently know very little about, and are fed by media catch phrases.
One example being that Gaza’s internet infrastructure actually goes though Israel.
np, spread the hate. I got the message, and I won’t be visiting here anymore. I thought this might be a good place to conversate and reason with reasonable adults, but I was wrong.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:49
The Wiesel doctrine of millennial and unique suffering has slammed headfirst into the climax of historical irrational anti-Semitism: WE CAN’T READ DYLAN TABS ANYMORE, OH NO. :(
You’re not winning any arguments, Oren. You’re not making us hop to the edge of our seats and nervously chew our nails. You’re being weathered. We’re nodding and smiling and edging past you and trying to get to the bathroom.
Why?
Because you’re lying, Oren, and no one likes to see that. You’re outright and blatantly lying and, whenever we call you on those lies, you end up saying “oh, the UN isn’t a reliable source anymore”, “oh, AI isn’t a reliable source anymore”, “eyewitness accounts? More like TERRORIST accounts, am I right.”
As as a religious man, I’m not going to debate the various negative-mitvahs that flow forth from NOT allowing charity, or actively deferring another’s act of chesed; I’m not going to tell you that you’re wrong, or that Israel’s wrong in their metaphysical logic. In many ways, I imagine you already know they’re wrong. As I wrote above, this is more of a philosophical issue than it ever was a historical one – if the Gaza restraunt menu was a fake before, you could not doubt it’s reality now. You have to say that they are not starving, in the face of the rest of the world. The only people that say that there is no shortage in Gaza are the Israelis. To believe this you must actively make the choice to ignore an enormous amount of information.
There was a holocaust survivor on the Freedom Flotilla. Was he, too, a terrorist?
Your suffering is not unique. It is no different than the suffering of the Palestinians, of the Iraqis. You have no reason to feel special. Nine people were murdered by the state for offering charity. You are not special for endorsing their deaths.
June 7th, 2010 at 13:03
As for the chords,
http://heiner.github.com/dylanchords/
is one of the many places to see them. Eyolf knows they are all over the internet; these ‘mirrors’ are actually there by intent as a failsafe way to access the chords when this cease and and desist thing was going on.
All I said about the restaurant was “They receive enough to be able to have Restaurants like this.” Quite frankly, it doesn’t freaking matter where that link comes from. All that matters is where it goes to — and if that information there is correct. Disbelieving truth because it is said by the wrong mouth is only hurting oneself.
Indeed, read the statistics from the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs about the humanitarian aid going into Gaza. Of course, you don’t have to believe it. I just happen to do so.
June 7th, 2010 at 13:04
to Oren,
I am not supportive of boycotting anyones expression and feel sure that Eyolf grief and dismay at the actions of the IDF will subside. I feel too, that he will not use a law of return to discriminate against you coming back experiencing his fabulous site and engaging in discourse. Discourse not disagreement educate us don’t feed us dogma.
to omer
Are you on the street? are you actioning change? are you challenging the convictions of those around you and championing change? tell us what the people doing and i know there are wonderful things that peopel of Isreal do? The likes of Daniel Barenboim building bridges and community.
I am not firing rockets of judgement. I am trying to hold up a mirror. You too are not happy with the actions of you government that is clear. The world is becoming frustrated with Isreal. For many years Isreal convinced the world that the PLO were the bad guys that Saeb Eriqat and Araffat were the enemies of all democacy. In working so hard to weaken these enemies isreal created far more and is now running out of friends. What we see from side of the world is country whose greatest leaders have been sacrificed.
Your faith talks of being “or la goyeem” yet you reap savagary like any other nation state. It has become a Jewish state not a homeland.
June 7th, 2010 at 15:10
“There was a holocaust survivor on the Freedom Flotilla. Was he, too, a terrorist?”
No, just an old fool. It seems like half the passengers of these “aid ships” were. The other half cannot claim such easy excuses. (Including the post-communist German MPs on that ship. Really peace-loving people who’d never build any wall!)
June 7th, 2010 at 18:56
to greg:
just for the Just for the record:
Israel and its government are as moral and humanitarian as any other European country(or Ausi).
You would not be any better if you faced the challenges we face day by day.
Actually you weren’t. many examples in history prove it well.
So please do not preach us…
And last thing:
Hamas says in every opportunity they want to exterminate the state of Israel.
Now try to negotiate with this kind folks. Gilad Shalit has not seen the light of day for almost 4 years, Never had a visit from red-cross or UN, is it humanitarian? Shooting out of schools and using kids as human shield is humanitarian?
Please, I would be the first to say we must end the armed conflict
And the occupation, but it is not as simple as you imagine it.
It is easy to speak from your comfortable and secured countries. Come here and try to help reducing the amount of hate on both sides if you
Really want to help. Cultural boycott on Israel is sourly serving the other way.
May there be peace.
June 7th, 2010 at 20:31
here. see what i mean? they do it to make you think whatever they want you to think.
we are being manipulated by the media
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/36489_Another_Cropped_Reuters_Photo_Deletes_Another_Knife_-_And_a_Pool_of_Blood
June 7th, 2010 at 20:56
You can jerk off to those pictures as much as you like; they don’t change the fact that these are pictures of heavily armed, professionally trained pirates who had just attacked and boarded a civilian ship in international waters (killing nine civilians in the process). In that light, it ought to be a completely irrelevant question, and not “a huge controversy over whether the activists were armed,” as one of the captions says in the link that you so generously provided. What is entirely uncontroversial is that the aggressors were armed to the hilt. Let’s start there, shall we?
I don’t advocate stabbing pirates, but I’d have been pretty pissed off myself had I been dragged out of bed by one of them.
On a general note: You’ve made your point; repeating it doesn’t make it more valid.
June 7th, 2010 at 21:24
to Eyolf:
you know what. i changed my mind. please keep your boycott.
i really don’t want anything to do with an idiot like you.
June 8th, 2010 at 02:48
Hi there everyone, I’d like to say a few things.
First off, thank you Eyolf for your website. I have used the Dylanchords many times and they are always a very reliable resource to help me play some of the best songs I ever have the opportunity to attempt play.
Secondly, thank you everyone for having this discussion. I truly feel like I’ve grown a little by seeing the back and forth. And though I definitely can sense the tension, and there was definitely some steam blowing out here and there – honestly this was one of the more civil discussions I’ve read in either the recent flotilla incident or in the past regarding Israel/Palestine.
And I appreciate how I found it. I appreciate swinging by the Dylanchords and being linked to a discussion about an powerful item of human concern. I think for most people, all it takes is to hear the stories of Israel and Palestine to be inspired to think: “There’s got to be a better way.”
Of course, I am not an activist, nor am I a leader. I do not know what my role is in this world, and how I can make it better for the places where it is most difficult. But I want to try, and I want to talk about it. So I thank you again everyone who has participated in this discussion.
And I thank our host Eyolf, who has selflessly shared his website for so long.
-David
June 8th, 2010 at 12:27
And so it seems the conversation has come to grinding hault.
A defensive stonewalling of the discourse. No room for negotiation there then. When the discourse stops war begins.
June 8th, 2010 at 15:36
Omer, Oren, and all other Israelis. The men is deaf. Stop trying to convince this guy with facts. He is has other hidden motives to hate us.
June 8th, 2010 at 15:36
Just got to reading a few of the comments here – it seems to me that Eyolf has his mind made up and neither reasoning or the facts will convince him otherwise, which is a shame. After his last offensive comment all I can say is that he doesn’t seem someone worth wasting time on having an adult conversation with, at least not on these matters, and wish him the best with his Dylan site. I certainly won’t miss it.
June 8th, 2010 at 16:00
Don’t let the real facts confuse you….
We realy sorry that the Israeli soliders did not let the terrorist on the ship to stab them to death… and that Israel don’t let the Hamas to gather weapon freely .
BTW – all the shipment on the ‘peace’ delivery ships (all of them) are 25% of the trades that enter the Gazza strip – daily…
I truely sorry (honestly) for the suffer of the people of Gazza but this is caused by the Hamas that rule the Gaza strip.
June 8th, 2010 at 16:10
Hey, lets talk about Dylan.
If Israel is such a bad place, why did Dylan himself (age 30) want to move and become a member of Kibbutz Ein Dor in Israel ? (he was not accepted by the members of the Kibbutz)
June 8th, 2010 at 16:19
let’s see what Dylan thinks:
Neighborhood Bully
Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
His enemies say he’s on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He’s the neighborhood bully
The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He’s the neighborhood bully
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He’s always on trial for just being born
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
He’s the neighborhood bully
He got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully
Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
He’s the neighborhood bully
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He’s the neighborhood bully
What’s anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He’s the neighborhood bully
What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully
June 8th, 2010 at 16:19
Eyolf Østrem, I wonder what your idol, Bob Dylan (born Jewish) has to say about people like you. It doesn’t matter what your read or see, you will rest until you’ll the Jewish state disappear. Who cares about 30,000 rockets were launched from Gaza to south of Israel? The state of Israel is a miracle that survives endless attack from its Arabs neighbours, but who cares? I would just like to remind you that Hilter is dead, that’s it, he won’t be back, you will need to get along without him.
June 8th, 2010 at 16:53
Dear Eyolf,
It has already been said that Israel will lose any battle in the media – only because the western world is so out of touch with reality, that any incident involving “blood thirsty pirates” versus “helpless peacenik civilians” will be taken at face value.
If I were living in Sweden, with neighbors like Norway, Finland and Denmark, I too would probably be out of touch with the real world, assuming that everyone who has internet must be like me.
However, the still-fledgling state of Israel has been harassed from its first day until the present. We still live in survival mode. Any European state would have acted the same or worse – we have seen what “restraint” was shown in the world wars. Sweden most particularly disgusted me for not having the guts to take a side, but profiting from the death of millions.
Dear friend, I do not expect you are too concerned with the tens of thousands (yes, 10,000’s) of rockets shot from Gaza into Israeli civilian cities. That would require you of being informed. But, I do assume that your boycott is directed against Turkey for their genocide of 1.5 million Armenians and the ongoing slaughter of Kurds (their latest air attack on the Kurds only last week). Also, I am sure your outrage is directed towards the 600 that were recently slaughtered in Darfur. Last, I am sure that your pain extends to the dozens killed each week in the name of Allah throughout the Middle East.
We in Israel are not happy to be living like this – under constant attack and threat of annihilation – the spoken dream and goal of our neighbors from day 1. I would like nothing more that returning Gaza and the west bank to their rightful owners (i.e., Egypt and Jordan) but these countries will not have anything to do with their “brothers” (they are smarter than us and we agreed to accept this in the name of peace with these countries). I would wish that the Palestinians could actually govern themselves, but that is not yet possible – believe me I would like nothing more than to build a great big wall, separating us from them for 2-3 generations and then tearing the wall down to a peaceful future but that too is not possible. The Islam world will always find a way and reason to attack us.
So, we Jews continue to suffer, making the best we can of our situation, hoping but not really expecting the world, made of people like you, to really understand what is going on. Continue to believe that soldiers armed with paintball guns are better equipped that knives and metal pipes. That one commando can actually fend against 20 men with his bare hands. The ships could have been sunk, fired upon from gunship, etc. But what did “bloodthirsty” Israel do – send them in with paintguns and small firearms as backup – several of which were taken from them by the “peaceful mob”, and used until no other option was left but self defense.
One general last comment if your outrage allows – if the commandoes were so fearsome why try to attack them? I know I wouldn’t. And hundreds of the real peaceniks knew that and accepted the flotilla for what it was meant to be – propaganda.
June 8th, 2010 at 17:09
David ISRAEL June 8th, 2010 at 4:53 pm Says:
David, you’re waisting your time on this guy with your long rational explanation.Him and his alike, know the facts. Have you seen “Dr. Starnglove”? this is exactly the same, he can’t stop keeping his arm from rising. The irony is that those ‘peace activists’ and the ‘rightious’ cannot distinguish between government and ordinary citizens, I mean…hmmm….they can….but not when it relates to the Jewish state (although he is mumbling something regarding ‘next time when you vote….” ), as if it’s doable from one day to another….and I heard that this guy is a Phd for Music.
June 8th, 2010 at 17:37
Joseph Goebbels could not express it better than you, Mr. Eyolf Østrem.
As a son of a Holocaust survivor, that was persecuted in Europe AFTER the WW2, by polish anti-Semites than wanted to finish the Nazi job of the final solution, I can tell you that nothing has changed in Europe. You Europeans, backed by your new Islamo-Nazi collaborators, are making once again preparations for the next final solution of the Jewish Problem. This time you have us Jews concentrated in one ghetto called Israel instead many ghettoes in east Europe back then, and the leader of Hezbollah believes this will make your job easier. Well, I think this time your job will be harder to accomplish. I suggest you read again the exact words of Dylan’s song in your header.
The blocking of site from of Israel is just another example of Nazi tactics. That’s how the process of exterminating begins.
June 8th, 2010 at 17:39
Eyolf,
I apologize that I’m going to write mostly *about you* to the fellow Israelis here. I acknowledge that it is somewhat impolite, but we find hard to converse to you in your current (self-described) enraged state.
We should understand where he comes from. He comes from the moral high ground that so many european left-leaning intellectuals come. They supported Stalin in the fifties, Mao in the Sixties, Pol-Pot in the seventies, fought American military bases in Europe (that protected *them* from the Soviet Empire) and generally believe that violence is unjustified in any way by the “tribe” they belong to, that is the Western civilization.
They see the Islamic fundamentalist development via some neo-marxist and neo-colonial interpretation, in that the subjugated and backwards Islamic countries just try to redress their historic grievances caused by the West.
They cannot understand the march of the radical Islam as anything else than the fault of the West. When the West will “behave” and will purge from their midst those Israelis and their American paymasters there will be finally Peace with a big P. Unfortunately, this is part of the same romantic fallacy to try to build a better and a “purer” world as those ideas that made the 20th century the bloodiest century in Europe’s existence.
They see Israel as part of the Western civilization. If they would accept that Israel *has* to fight for its existence, this would mean that the rest of the West *might have* to fight as well in order to maintain its culture, freedoms and perhaps its independence. This is something they cannot accept; not after the 20th century wars. Therefore Israel challenges their worldview so badly that they have to demonize it and see it as “all bad”, like as in killing the messenger. The US is not so far off as well, and Obama provides some (very) temporary relief.
If Israel would not be seen as part of the west, nothing in Israel would threaten them. A good example is really Gaza, that is officialy blockaded by Egypt *completely* – at least until the last few days. Most of the food, electricity, water and medical supplies come from the “blockading” Israel. But, nowhere is Egypt mentioned as a factor in the “humanitarian holocaust” (sic) that exists in Gaza.
Indeed, a huge and incommensurate amount of agression and suffering exists in the non-western world, and this is acquiesced as being “natural” or at most to be frown upon in despair and helplessness.
So, if I may paraphrase, first they came for the Israelis, then they came for the moderate Muslims, then they came for the Americans – and during all this time the European left kept its high moral ground, and do not notice how the rope tightens around their neck, how demography works and soon a majority of newborns in Europe will be of Islamic heritage, and how those newborns, when grown up will want to impose a different culture, distinctly illiberal. By then it will be too late.
As always, perhaps the Americans will save them this time also. But why should they ?
Long Live the United Islamic Europe, The Western Province of The Great Caliphate !
So, is it clear now why the blindness is soothing for the moment ?
June 8th, 2010 at 17:59
@Dan
I was not aware of this song. It’s brilliant.
I must say, though – without anyone listening – that this pair, BiBaraq are sickening idiots. How did they get accepted in sayeret matkal ?
June 8th, 2010 at 19:19
One more brilliant song writer:
“Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace ”
I’ll buy these words to live by.
Will the Muslims in this region buy them also?
I don’t think so
June 8th, 2010 at 19:22
First of all, let me make some things clear.
There is no such thing called “Palestinians”. Palestine is the old name of the area which includes Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. So, if you want to make a country called “Palestine”, it should include all those areas as well.
Oh, we can’t include them, because they belong to their fellow Arabs from Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Israel (Israeli-Arabs). Where did all those Arabs come from? Saudi-Arabia of course (Arabs, like, duh). Israel was born in 1948, and its Arab neighbors decided to conquer Israel. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt didn’t succeed to make it. They lost the war they started, and they are angry at us until now. Once they have a chance, they will conquer the Israeli land.
Oh, and the Arab nations also lost some ground, just like you do in regular wars. The same way the USA defeated Mexico and received Southern California, Texas and Arizona, and the same way Russia got some islands from Japan, that’s how Israel received the rest of their lands, both in 48 and in 67. So if you want to make “justice”, give each country (all over Earth) its original lands back. Is it actually possible?
Since those lands were never claimed back by their origin countries, Gaza is part of Israel, now and then. Needless to say that “Palestine” as a country doesn’t exist, hence there is no such thing as “Palestinians”, but Arabs who live in Gaza.
Now that we made that clear, we can go on.
Before you, Eyolf, talk about us, you should put into the equation:
1) The wars and the thousands of missiles we received from Lebanon and Gaza and still receive from Gaza. No other country would let that happen. In other places, it would end immediately with thousands of people killed from the side that shot the missiles. Do you remember V-1 and V-2 missiles from Nazi Germany straight to London, killing innocent people? This is exactly the same.
2) The hate, the ignorance and the dis-information about Israel, Israelis and Israeli-Jews.
3) The fact that we have a strong army. They actually envy us, believe it or not.
4) The security that we want for our country and people. Believe it or not, we have no wish to conquer other countries. We want to stay in the same place. This is our place. As long as others don’t want it to happen, we will have to defend ourselves.
Before you blame us, Eyolf, take a look at yourself and ask yourself how you can stop the Islamic hate.
Once a 9/11 happen in your place, you will start thinking the same way.
Happy thinking,
Moshe.
June 8th, 2010 at 19:32
We will find you soon…
June 8th, 2010 at 19:33
You are so ignorant its actually a joke. You are not even worth the argument.
June 8th, 2010 at 19:34
Your a fool, motivated by mass media, lied to by your own government, and Arab cock muncher. I hope that Bob Dylan law suit against your site would prove to be right.
June 8th, 2010 at 19:39
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June 8th, 2010 at 19:42
if you please watch the following vidoes before judging it would be great, thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybgdWRxRBuE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeDh_WZwBX0
June 8th, 2010 at 19:47
Neighborhood Bully
Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
His enemies say he’s on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He’s the neighborhood bully
The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He’s the neighborhood bully
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He’s always on trial for just being born
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
He’s the neighborhood bully
He got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He’s the neighborhood bully
Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully
Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
He’s the neighborhood bully
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He’s the neighborhood bully
What’s anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He’s the neighborhood bully
What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully
June 8th, 2010 at 19:49
I read in some of the responses you claim that Israelis killed thousands of people, Where? I know some drugs are prevalent in your lands as much as anti-Semitism is prevalent in Europe now and always. Now Read and learn:
There are several instances of contemporary (post-UN Charter of the Law of the Seas) practices of blockades, e.g. in the Vietnam and in the Gulf War.
The San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict which states, “Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.”
June 8th, 2010 at 19:50
Dear Israeli
“ISRAELRAPEDYOYRASS”
does not help to explain anything about our prespective. It is just an angry and ugly response. I know what you are feeling about the way the world portray us these days, I feel it too. But this does not help, please appologize.
June 8th, 2010 at 19:54
This may give some prespective
http://www.danielpipes.org/4990/arab-israeli-fatalities-rank-49th
June 8th, 2010 at 19:55
Guys, please don’t flood his blog. He lets us express ourselves, and that’s 90% much better than other places.
Let’s give him the truth one by one. If he chooses to ignore it, there’s nothing that we can do. Ignore the media and give him pure historic and current facts. It hurts more than any media manipulation.
June 8th, 2010 at 19:57
Learn the facts first, boycot later. Ignorance is indeed one of the greater threats to humanism.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:00
Hello.
I invite you to live under a Hamas or any other Muslim “government” for a week.
I don’t think you will make it alive. For a Dr. i thought you had some sense and that you actually read and know history. I hope all your neighbors will be Arabs, and that you will get a good look at they “culture”. Dare i say, you have no place in their world if you don’t praise Alla every second of your day.
And now let me finish by saying you are a complete moron, I hope they don’t let you teach classes you ignorant fool, go and watch some more television.
What should i expect from a guy with a diploma in being a no good hippie.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:01
You have created quite a small stir here:) congrats…
It is however unfortunate that after reading your original post on the subject, I have the feeling that you have no real comprehension of the situation (and I even suspect of Dylan’s lyrics) and the subtleties of the region escape your perception.
I live in Israel, I have lived in so many places worldwide (a musician’s life;) and trust me, I hope that Israel will be smart and patient enough that eventually the truth will prevail. I have Arab friends here who are amazed by how easily the world in manipulated.
I will leave you with a couple of quotes
When ignorance gets started it knows no bounds.
Will Rogers
All I know is just what I read in the papers, and that’s an alibi for my ignorance.
Will Rogers
and let me be brave enough to end it with :
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
Dalai Lama
June 8th, 2010 at 20:05
For the record, Israel does not kills thousands or even dozens of Gazans. Instead they supply them weekly with 15,000 tons of food, water and electric power. That goes for the West Bank too, that does not have any blockade, because, unlike Gaza, it is not ruled by Hamas, a terrorist regime that sent hundreds of suicide bombers and thousands of rockets raining down on Israel. The flotilla members of the one boat where everything went wrong did attack the soldiers and the end was bad for all and is unfortunate. But punishing Israelis who like Dylan chords by blocking them is not the way to go. Express your opinion and let all in in the spirit of harmony and of Dylan’s music.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:06
I disagree,I am proud to say i am from Israel and I recommend you learn the facts before you speak,we do not justify our actions by our past,every thing we do, we do out of self defence.I suggest you get your facts and deside for your self and not listen to some idiot terrorist.I don’t need your damn site.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:08
Are you for real? UK and the US are killing for oil not because of Israeli. Do you know anything about Islam? it is evil religion that preach for killing non Islamic people , discriminate against women, guys and lesbian. I would like to know why you don’t block the people of Iran and where you can find any democratic country that is Islamic. I hope that in a few years from now Scandinavia will be Islamic republic , your women will have to cover all body , Alcohol will be banned and lashing , killing and cutting hands will be part of the laws ; like in Saudi Arabia…
dude, you are either hypocrite or just stupid (or both).
Do you know that Turkey conquer part of Cyprus and they don’t give rights to the Kurdish People and kill them? why don’t you block Turkish?
June 8th, 2010 at 20:10
Helsinki Principles on the Law of Maritime Neutrality:
5.1.2(3) Merchant ships flying the flag of a neutral State may be attacked if they are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search, capture or diversion.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:12
just take a look in this link
he is not an israeli guy
and it borodcast by fox in us
i think you’ll be shocked as i’m
after wathcing this video and the following 4 episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFgjk4ApFwY&feature=related
btw have a lovely day
June 8th, 2010 at 20:17
1.Let’s put some facts, Most of the immigrant Community in scandinavia are unemployed, and descriminated because of their Origin.
2. Gay People in palestein are executed and prosecuted.
3. Chritian People are being harrest by the Muslim palestinien.
4. Today in the German newspaper à school were boomed 14 died and More then 40 injured. Are you going to boycott the US viewers.
We European are hypocrate when it comes to Israel.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:21
“Dear” eyolf… As a PHD (I hold a great amount of respect for this title…)
Please consider the following…
If you can some up your opinion in one sentence, it not realy an opinion.
(You’r not the only one with mirors ya know…)
June 8th, 2010 at 20:21
Emma, Joe, I am glad there are educated people like you out there who can speak their minds.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:22
Did you boycott North Korea for torpedoing a S. Korean cruiser?
Did you boycott Sudan for the massacres in Darfur (600 dead alone, last May)?
Did you boycott Turkey for killing kurds, some across the border, in Iraq (200 dead alone since this year started)? How about the Armenian jenocide?
How about Congo? Nigeria? Sierra Leon?
Did you boycott Syria for killing 7000-40000 Palestinians in Hama (1982)? Their current leader is the son of the president who gave that order.
Did you boycott Jordan for killing over 3000 Palestinians in 1970? Their current leader is the son of the king who gave that order.
How about Iran? did you boycott them for trashing the latest elections?
You’re as hypocrite as you’re ignorant.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:24
Well, it is not surprising that a freaking musicologist would buy into all this propaganda. A musicologist is on who is:
A. Not talented enough to be a performer.
B. Not creative enough to be a composer.
C. Not intellectually capable of being a theorist.
D. Too spoiled and lazy to seek a real profession, and therefore has time to sit in his parents’ basement and judge people who are fighting for their lives.
According to people like this asshole, the is NOTHING that Israel can do to defend itself without it being a war crime. Anything Israel does is immediately equated to Nazi Germany. According to you, Israel should allow a free flow of missiles into Gaza – missiles that would be directed at Israeli civilians, including women and children, but I guess Yossis and Rafis are a legitimate target, while Muchamads and Achmeds are victims of cruel racism. According to you, Israel should allow the people who openly site the destruction of Israel as their main goal, the freedom to pursue their “non-racist” goal (because how can “semi-brown” people be racist?…). Well, if what you are suggesting is for us to let ourselves and our family die just to live up to your twisted moral expectations, expectations I am sure you would never live up to if it was your home that’s under attack, the only thing left to say is FUCK YOU and I hope you keep living your pathetic life in your parents’ basement.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:24
Dear eyolf
Thanks for paying your attention to the region.
this letter is not cynical in any way.
the Palestinians do suffer. there’s no doubt in that.
no one in Israel wants to see them that way. the hard language here is because people in israel are afraid to loose their home just because the world have a sudden sense of justice without knowing all the facts from close.
you do know a lot of true facts, like how much aid the Palestinians are getting according to the UN. but the situation here is a lot more complicated then the media at your country can explain or have the time to, so they deliver only the simple stuff = strong against week, David against Goliath, the popular news.
did you know that hamas fired from within schools in the “casting led” operation. it’s not an assumption. did you know what the operation was for?
did you know that most of the Palestinians danced in the streets on 9/11?
we cant apologize for being strong eyolf.
and on the other hand. the Israeli government is not free from mistakes.
israel is a democracy with many Dilan fans. we are an open society and like most western countries have gay parades number of times a year unlike our Arab neighbors who prefer to hang them.
you have my email. i will be more than glad to make a calm discussion about the more than very complicated situation here.
Hope you’ll get this through all the angry comments here.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:24
Eyolf shalom,
Dylan is a zionist jew, just like me. You should boycott him too.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:24
Eyolf,
I really appreciate your morality and acts for human rights.
Just let me ask you some questions. As the manager of this so important site, why are’nt you boycotting the visitors of Turkey due to the murder and oppression of the Kurds? Why don’tt you resent against the oppression of women in Iran? Just 2 weeks ago 100 people were killed in Pakistan on a political background, doesn’t it bother you? North Korea fired a torpedo on a ship from South Korea and murdered dozens of people, where were you? can North Koreans still play the chords of Lay lady Lay?
I have plenty more examples, but I know it’s not going to convince you. Your hatred for Israel is simply from other motives, not facts. Anti-Semitism. Under the disguise of human rights you collaborate with religious extremists and terrorist organizations like Iran, as long as the Jews are the common enemy. Arabs do not care about the killing of Arabs. They kill themselves a lot more. The only care about what the Jew does.
If you’re really care about human rights, block your site to the Chinese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Afghans.. and also the Israelis. Then ww will argue about whether Israel is violating human rights or not. If you are running only against Israelis – you are just a racist and an anti-Semite.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:29
So much hypocrisy!
Would you consider blocking users from the US or England because of their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan? of course not, you will probably find yourself without any traffic right away. It’s so easy to sit in your comfortable and safe house and take this useless actions, motivated by lies just to fill good about yourself. So pathetic!
Have you done any research before accusing Israel in killing of “thousands of semi-dark-skinned Achmeds and Muhammeds “? why bother? what do we need the truth for anyway?
June 8th, 2010 at 20:30
I think mr. Eyolf has abandoned this debate some time ago. But I’ll go ahead anyway.
I’m from Israel, and you should know that the great majority of Israelis long for peace in the entire region. It’s like a fantasy.
Tourism will flourish, economy will blossom and there will be no more death.
The dream of every Israeli is to somehow solve our problems and start living peacefully. But we’ll probably never see that happen. It’s a tragedy.
Most arab countries deny our existance.
Hammas declares in its open manifest that their ultimate goal is to destroy Israel.
Extremists and Fanats spread hate against Israel and the West everywhere.
And it’s all getting worse every day.
What can we do? We just try to survive. The middle east isn’t your comfy and peaceful Europe. It’s a fight to survive every day, with the Hamas on one side, Hizbullah and Syria on the other, and enough hate to fuel a space station.
I really think you just have no idea of what’s going on around here. Come for a visit. Visit Israel and visit Gaza. Then make up your mind ;)
June 8th, 2010 at 20:30
I can’t wait for Europe to have a Muslim majority! They will probably burn Dylan’s writings and rape blonde women when that happens. lol :)
June 8th, 2010 at 20:35
See the facts before poiting fingers.. Hitler said WWII was driven by the jews.. We are peacefull, we want to live in Peace and Harmony with the world.. how many friends the Palestinians have? how many actually care about Bob Dylan? please know your facts.. don’t tell us you hate Israel becuase of the “free Gaza” incident..
Thank you
June 8th, 2010 at 20:35
mr ‘smart’
Bob dillen would be ashamed of you if he knew what you just did. You let cheap politics and your private bitterness, to ruin this site’s professionality.
Since Israel is doing nothing wrong, it fighting for its life. What about Darfoor? Tybet? Armenians murder by the turkes? and the list kis endless. Why do you only mention Israel while the world is full of hate crimes and violence? Israel is the only country in the middle east where gay and lesbians can live freely. did you even know that????
I strongly suggest that you look at the facts and study some history before you make stuiped comments. See exactly how the situation there has started, and help thinking of solutions instead of being hateful. Hate is not of Dillon’s legency.
Good luck with your bitterness!!
Jason, San Francisco
June 8th, 2010 at 20:40
Doesn’t Boycotting or blockading an entire nation in order to pressure them to change their government is in essence exactly what’s wrong with Israel policy toward the Gazans ?
Seems like you do exactly what u preach others no to do.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:44
Did you even see your “peace activists” on video? The one where they hit Israeli soldiers? The one where they say “Go back to Auschwitz” to the soldier that asks them to stop on the radio? How about the one where one “peace activist” says that that he wants to be a “Shahid” in this trip, because he tried two times in the past to die while killing Israelis with no success, and this time, with help from Allah, he hopes to succeed?
We’ll, I guess ones an anti-semi always an anti-semi. Anyway, here are some links to have a quick glace at the truth before you go back to celebrate in the hate festival that is taking place right now…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
“Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully”
What would Bob Dylan think about you stealing his songs and using your site to discriminate Israelis (he wrote this song to support Israel)?
I hope you and your hypocrite friends will be also locked in Gaza.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:50
Allow me to strongly disagree with your Israel Boycott and Comments.
First in Regard to Flotilla, this was not a peaceful activity, it was meant to create a provocation and was very successful at that. Israel( and Egypt) have a blockade around Gaza to prevent the Hamas from Smuggling weapons to the Gaza strip which were used just last year to fire over 3000 rocket to Israeli cities and on Israeli citizens. Hamas is not a peaceful organization, it is a terror organization which is funded by Iran. By lifting the blockade from Gaza not only Israel will be exposed, but whole Europe too because Iran will have a base on the Mediterranean which ability to launch rockets and Missiles to Europe too. The Hamas is in in conflict not only with Israel but with the Palestinian too authority and killed in Gaza over the last few years thousands of the Palestinians authority supporters.
Israel offered flotilla to sail to an Israeli port north of Gaza, where its cargo will be unloaded and check and then it will be transferred to Gaza. Flotilla and its passengers refused. If the purpose of this trip was to help Gaza they should have accepted this offer, But no these so called peace activist wanted something more, something terrible.
The Israel soldiers tried to peacefully divert the ship to an Israeli port… but instead they were brutally attacked by terror activists on board the flotilla ship, Some of the Israeli soldiers are severely wounded.
I’m very sorry that people died on board this ship, however after the Israeli soldiers were attacked they had no other option but to defend themselves and my feeling is that the people onboard that ship wanted these results to create the impact they wanted
Israel and its citizens want peace. I’m not sure where from the claim that Israel kills thousands of people was taken. However, I can with 100% certainty tell that the writer doesn’t know Israel, doesn’t know Israelis and doesn’t know their values.
Israelis don’t kill innocent people PERIOD. However, while trying to protect yourself accidents happen and sometime innocent people from both sides are getting hurt.
Israel and its people want peace more than anything else, however one need to remember that Israel doesn’t not ‘live’ among friendly neighboring countries, but countries that threatened for many years to throw Israel and its citizens into the water. The only way Israel would be able to achieve peace is by having a strong army that will be able to protect it against those who do not agree with Israel right to exist like Hamas and Iran.
June 8th, 2010 at 20:58
Before I begin my comment, i just want to say I am an Israeli who lives outside of Israel and I did my mandatory service in the Israeli army.
A few things I would like to note. As much as you don’t agree with the state of Israel and it’s current behavior, a boycott is exactly the kind of action that will harm your cause, that is bringing peace to the area. If you lived in Israel you will know that this is one of the most diverse countries in the world, and there is a strong and loud opposition inside Israel to the current government.
what do you do when you perform a boycotts on Israelis? you do exactly what you preach against – a collective punishment to all Israelis. that only makes Israelis feels that everyone is against them no matter what they think, do or say.
Now for some other views that are being echoed in your blog and in some of the comments:
I have a lot of criticism for many of my government’s actions. But things are much more complex than some of you like to present. It is not a case of good vs bad, it is a case of years of mistrust, mutual fear, and a unique problematic demographic and geo political situation that brought the area to to this dead end.
The collapse of the peace process isn’t only Israel fault. And please bare in mind that in Gaza there is a government, backed by Iran, who doesn’t even recognize Israel’s right to exist. It is a government that treated their own oposition in a much more barbaric violent way than any of the Israeli action. Abu Mazen, the Palestinian president is not working with them, and is supporting behind the scene the continuation of the blockade, since he understand that if Hamas government will gain recognition and legitimacy the moderate palestenians will suffer a deadly blow.
You did have a point about the “childhood” of the jewish people and its experience in the holocaust. Israeli and Israel have a security complex. It is much like a post traumatic person. We are afraid. I know it is hard for you guys to understand, you say – Israel has tanks, ariplans, big army. But Israel also never had a year of peace since its establishment, and was never been accepted as an existing fact by its neighbors. We gave Egypt all the land that was in dispute, a territory bigger than the all state of Israel, but still, if myself as an Israeli will go to Egypt, I will probably get killed there. And this is told to me by Egyptian friends of mine who lives and work with me.
About the Israeli army –
I served in this army. I will not start with all the slogans – “we are the most moral army in the world” etc… I will tell you only this, the Israeli army uses much more human methods than any of the NATO Forces in Iraq or Afghanistan. As a former Israeli soldier I can tell you that the situation is fucked up and not the soldiers.
We are not better, but not worse than any other western country. The only difference is that we are still engaged in a fight for our right to exist.
Will be happy to exchanged views with any one in a civilized manner.
May peace will come to our region in our life time,
Ilan.
June 8th, 2010 at 21:05
Mr Eyolf,
Palestinians should live free, happy good life – i believe we agree on that.
now please answer these if you can:
1. did you feel pain when Hamas throw thousand of misels on Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod?
2. were you sorry when isreli kndergardens were bombed? hospitals were bombed? when israeli civilianes died? lived in fear for years from any litle noise? couldnt sleep at night being scared that they will hear the noise of the bomb coming again? for years . . .
Mr Eyolf – WE LEFT GAZA YERAS AGO AND LEFT IT TO THE PALESTINIANS – we wantd peace insted we recieved thousands of Bombs on Israli civilians – did you know that and more important – do you care?? you sound like an intelignt humanitian person. do you care about jewish children the same as the plestinians children? I do. maybe it is because i am Jewish and a woman i feel pain wheni hear palestininas children died. I dont celebrate like the palestinians do.
Do you care about JEWISH life also?
My Eyolf – we are more than 3000 years old. we saw everything. your behaviour is not new to us . same energy differnt people.
AND TO MY JEWISH BROTHERS AND SISTERS LIVING IN THEWORLD – It is time to come back home to israel. the story is over for us here.
Mr Eyolf, i wish you all the best. god bless you and your family. may you always live in peace.
June 8th, 2010 at 21:11
question, did you even comprehend the lyrics of the Neighborhood Bully?
inconvenient facts:
*In 1921 75% of the PALESTINIAN MANDATE was given to some saudi arabian roylaty in gratitude for their loyalty, and renamed JORDAN. 70% of people in jordan are palestinian by the way. how come you never hear people claiming JORDAN as PALESTINE, but only the territories infidel jews have sovereignty over?
[hint: black september where the hashemite king jordan butchered more palestinian in one month than in 50 years of conflict b/w israel and all of its arab neighbors]
conclusion: BAN JORDAN
* The neutral UN has tailored a unique and very lax definition for what is a palestinian refugee. Unlike the other world refugees, to be considered a palestinian (refugee) you have had to live in the palestinian mandate only TWO years…a mere 2 years prior to 1948. I repeat, this lax definition is unique only to the PALESTINIAN refugee,no other refugees in this world have this lax definition.
question: since when does indigenous = living 2 years in a place?
*Nearly 1/3 of the United Nations resolutions concern or condemn Israel. Any world organization dedicating 33% of its attention to 1 member of the 190 member is biased BY ANY STANDARD.
you might argue: why, Israel! that fascist state! It’s the worst in the world! Killed the most people in the world!
wrong again. compared to other (lengthy and non-lengthy) conflicts in the world the israeli-ARAB conflict claimed significantly less lives. not good with numbers? Here I’ll remind you: Iran-Iraq war (1 mil) Congo (over 1 mil) Darfur (over 1 mil) Russia-Checnya (several hundred thousands), current iraq/afghanistan war (god knows)
you might argue: this is not about deaths! its about the immoral occupation!!
well that happens in the world too: Turkey/Iran/Iraq occupying a nation of 25-35 million kurds, who unlike the palestinians actually have a history of being a state, have their own language and very distinct culture. what not enough? OK, turkey again, this time with Northern Cyprus, whereas in the past decade only it has sent the cypriots over 50,000 turkish settlers. BTW turks are the only peeps in the world to recognize their turkish settlement in cyprus as a state. A few more may include, CHINA (tibet) Iran (azerbaijan) UK (folk islands near argentina)
conclusion: BAN IRAN, TURKEY^4 (iraq war, kurds, cyprus, armenian genocide), USA, UK, CHINA, RUSSIA,CONGO, SUDAN.
* 5 years ago Israel has ethnically cleansed thousands of Jews from Gaza in what is also known as the DISENGAGMENT in order to virtually end all claims of occupation in Gaza. the world promised it it will have the right to retalliate to any belligerence. well you know what? the world lied. The naval/air blockade wasnt there 5 years ago, it was placed 3 years ago, while mind you they receive gas, electricity, water, 100 trucks load of humanitarian aid from israel/day all for FREE (unless you consider 10,000 rockets a formof payment, which i suspect you do.)
well…you might still claim: the death ratio…it’s improportional!
some questions:
if the same number of israelis died, would that make us more justified? Israel should not be penalized for being proactive about the safety of its citizens by building shelters and installing an alarm system for its citizens. Do not grant credit to hamas for the low casualty count, as their rockets are lethal alright. the low casualty count can be credited to Israeli proactiveness and responsibility towards their safety.
also, if hamas really cared about the palestinians they would:
a. build bomb shelters for them instead of 500 tunnels for weapon smuggling. [granted theyll let them use those, instead of using them as human shields]
b. LET THE AID THE “FREEDOM FLOTILLA” in because it’s piling on our end of theborder, and the palestinians are STARVING FOR IT!! (even though they are the largest recipients of charity in teh world,have more wealth/capita than india and EGYPT)
overall conclusion: you are a hypocrite.
most important quesion: why?
June 8th, 2010 at 21:12
I suggest you don’t bother discussing politics . I joined a discussion on the topic about that topic and I already regret it. People are jumping right and left throwing all sorts of claims without knowing what’s really going on in Israel.
All the government of Israel is trying to do is save lives and preserve life. The fact it faces enemies who don’t value life truth or tolerance makes it very hard. Unfortunately we live in a simple world where people only look at the results rather than the causes. The funny thing is that if Israel didn’t stop that boat it would have broken international law related to having a legal blockade which Israel follow to the letter.
Good job in promoting your site prepare for at least 100000 hits.
June 8th, 2010 at 21:21
Dear Eyolf,
(who probably left the building a while back but I’m gonna try anyway):
There’s no doubt that the people of Gaza are poor, miserable, hopeless, futureless. Their condition is heartbreaking, especially when compared to their brothers on the West Bank. But that shouldn’t stand in your way of getting the facts straight and maybe hit some history books while you’re at it (AND international law books). Don’t be so ignorant, it doesn’t become your degree.
June 8th, 2010 at 21:23
Here guys, maybe this post will show the unbiased truth:
http://www.entertainmedaily.com/2010/06/lets-just-beat-the-crap-out-of-each-other-till-were-dead-and-gone/
It’s the best one I found in English yet…
June 8th, 2010 at 21:26
Hi
You are an idiot
you are not antisemic, racist, terror supporter or evil of any kind. you are simply an idiot.
you discussing with such confidence matters
June 8th, 2010 at 21:37
which you know nothing about and that makes you look like the idiot that you are
If the US army had used the methods used by the IDF in his ar against terror’ many civilians lives would have been saved
hey wait I? have another item for you?
did you notice us policemen carry arms legaly with tax payers funds while criminals have to buy these paying their own money?? how do you expect the criminals the criminals to fight fairly??
It’s sickening me that US govenment!!! they are so evil!!
and wait I got another one did you ever notice these damn hospitals!!! do you have any idas how many people die in hospitals Oh god howcome the us legal system dont arrest all these damn doctors and nurses. wait not arrest lethal injection I say evil butchers!! they sicken me oh god!
sorry for the sarcasm but this post made me laugh
you truly have the facts interprated like a six or a seven year old
no ofense but don’t take math or med as a major in college…
Peace all
June 8th, 2010 at 21:44
hi
before i start to write mybe ‘ u will become me(why not i am israel proud in my contry.like U/
in the west we or i should write U u have the tourks most lovlley pepole ( but now we not sure).
in the east we have the palestine pepole thay do ntot want a peace u can check .
in the north we have the hizbulla and the lebanon and suria .
and in the south we have gaza.( god help us)
NOW I WANT TO SEE U IF U CAN DEAM!!!!!!!!!!
June 8th, 2010 at 21:45
some one
June 8th, 2010 at 21:46
dddd
June 8th, 2010 at 21:47
I wanted to write something nice but after doing some searching on this guy
I found this:
“deaths of Palestinian children by insisting that their blood ‘was taken to be kneaded into the dough by extremist Jews to be used in …”
Book edited by MR Eyolf who is probably an anti-Semite,I feel sorry for you Eylof:
Read it yourself:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ptwDhSLkSKkC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Eyolf+%C3%98strem+palestine&source=bl&ots=KHOb-X1ICi&sig=LRgP-oTLpt4IsauhXHHJaQLnAdc&hl=en&ei=m6kOTKirCJKeONGWjaYN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
June 8th, 2010 at 22:09
So if im a 16 years old israeli (i could be arab, christian, druze or jewish) without a political agenda, i should be boyocated because some fucking moron from europe who dosent seem to give a fuck about the 650 civilians who were murdered in sudan by muslims in the past 2 weeks, feels bad about some turks?
Fuck u and anyone who thinks like you. In the past 62 years only 132,000 arabs died in wars with israel ( the only nation on earth that it’s pure existance is threatened by other countries). In the same 62 years more then 180 million civilians dided in conflicts around the world. Alot of those were by fucking europian assholes such as the owner of this blog.
So 132,000 arabs (only 14,000 of them were palastinians, in 62 years !!!) are way more important then 180 millions?
What did u do gor the 1.5 million muslims who were brutaly murdered in the past 8 years in sudan ( your fucking pathetic country support their regim), while 4200 died in gaza at the same time?
1.5 million, or 4200 ??
Go fuck yourself. I shall pray to my god (who kept my people alive for more then 3500 years, even though fucking idiots such as yourself tried to get rid of us) to give you cancer.
U and your fucking mom who brought a demon such as yourself into this world.
He usually listens
June 8th, 2010 at 22:15
Neighborhood Bully – a song by Bob Dylan
Written years ago, but sadly it seems as if it was written this week. Looks like you don’t know the song too well, so let’s go over the lyrics.
“He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin [...]
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized”
I guess this is the lynch mob he’s talking about, the terrorists on the ship, awaiting soldiers with knives, axes and metal bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Xm8Irz-so
“Old women condemned him, said he could apologize”
One of these old women, I guess, is Helen Thomas, who called the flotilla clash “a massacre” and then went on in another vid and said the jews should be sent “back to Germany and Polland” where they were massacred by the millions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=447ekAh8AOo
“He’s always on trial for just being born”
The UN condemned “Israeli violence” right after the incident, without knowing the facts, and demanded an international investigation with pre-determined findings.
“there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back”
That must refer to what the “peace activists” did to the soldiers on the ship, as this picture shows, published in a Turkish newspaper
http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=36575&p=7&rid=2
“Well, he got no allies to really speak of”
We saw how Turkey, “Israel’s ally” backstabbed Israel. Here is victorious Turkish PM Erdogan with Iran’s great dictator Ahmadinejad in a summit in Istanbul today
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/06-turkey-pushes-for-condemnation-of-israel-at-summit-rs-02
And as our beloved artist Bob Dylan wrote in the verse before last:
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed!
June 8th, 2010 at 22:17
Oh, and you should read the full lyrics yourself
http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/neighborhood-bully
June 8th, 2010 at 22:18
Because no one is actually blocked from your site (many proxy services let anyone in) I can only assume you begged to express your opinion in a provocative way. You felt an urge to create an opportunity for yourself and for other visitors to discuss your noble and ever-so-fluent academic opinions about the conflict. All this while not experiencing the emotions and cognitive dissonances of either side, and while selectively acknowledging only some of the facts.
I will say it directly: You are a typical ivory armchair critic, who has to enter IP addresses in order to get heard.
June 8th, 2010 at 22:19
Shalom
First Robert Allen Zimmerman (Bob Dylan) is a Jew.
I have to state that the information you have is totally wrong.
With your permission I shall start a review and explain. It is important
you read it all.
In 1917 the British published the Lord Ballfur declaration calling for a
Jewish home land in Israel. Based on that as a winning superpower of WW1
they were given a mandate by the league of nations but they declined to it
and the Lord Balfur declaration. The middle east oil drills showed great
success and UK tendency was for the Arab side calling against the Jewish
state. The Brits closed the gates of Israel to immigrants and gave permit
of 15000 per year which eventually prevented the Jews from Europe to be
saved. Thus my grandfather my grandmother and uncle were killed by the Nazis
and collaborators.
The state of Israel was founded in May 14 1948 based on a UN resolution
181 from November 29th 1947 called the partition plan.
This plan called to build two states one an Israeli State and one Arab
state. The partition placed Jerusalem as an international city by the
control of the UN.
Even though the state borders were small we accepted it and our hand was
in peace. However, on the other side the reaction of local Arabs leaving
within the British Mandate territory of so called Palestine was against with
many acts of terror as you see today. (Palestine: Name that was given to the
province of Judea by Adrian Cesar of Rome in 130 AD to humiliate Judea and
Jews who took revolt against Rome, by calling Judea name Palestina for the
Philistines that were here during the days of King David).
They were promised by the Arab countries, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt,
Iraq, that the day after last British Soldier will leave Israel they will
invade and throw us all to the sea.
They encouraged them to continue on terror activities as well as to leave
as soon they will live in Tel-Aviv and rape all Jewish women. The Arabs in
Israel refused to leave in Peace and left even though they were asked to
stay by the Jewish Agency.
Unfortunately, the Arabs lost the war but refused to understand that we
are a fact here we cannot be removed destroyed or eliminated. No one ever
again shall harm us. The Arabs called that day “the Nakba” which is
translated from Arabic to English as the disaster of the Jewish state
foundation. The by their own hands created their tragedy of refugees so
called the Palestinian Problem.
The Arabs, the brothers of Palestinians Arabs, double-crossed them as they
did not accepted them as citizens in their countries, they placed them in
reservations called refugees camps like the Americans did to the Indians
which were the native Americans.
The world and UN have a definition for a Refugee. People that had to leave
a territory due to war and this is applied only for the first generation.
However, hypocrisy is playing a major role here and there is a special case
for Arabs “there is no limitation and it is applied to all generations” This
was promoted by the Arab league in order to use the tragedy they created to
destroy Israel.
Israel is a state that has to fight for its survival since it was born.
1. It had to fight the independence war in 1948 since Arabs wanted to
destroy us
2. It had to fight the Sinai campaign in 1956 since Egypt promoted the
Fedaion terror activities
3. It had to fight the 6 days war since Egypt Syria Jordan and Iraq
wanted to eliminate us
4. It had to fight the Yom Kippur war in 1973 since Egypt and Syria in
a coordinated war wanted to destroy us
5. It had to go to 1982 war which I fought since Arafat attacked
Israel from southern Lebanon and killed unarmed innocent children and
people.
6. It had to fight terror and I took part on it in Gaza in 1990 since
we were attacked
7. Israel went to second war on Lebanon in 2006 since it was attacked
without any provocation even though our forces pulled back from Lebanon in
2000.
8. Israel had to go on war with Hammas in 2008 since it was attacked
by Rockets since 2000
9. IDF soldier Gila’ad Shalit was kidnapped by Hammas in 2006 and Red
Cross cannot visit him.
In 1993 Israeli government signed a peace process with PLO.
In peace people do not die from blasting buses (have you seen it in Poland
, France, Germany) They do not die from machine guns they are not killed by
suicide terrorist in a hotel at the eve of Passover, 2003.
All was driven from the same cause killing Jews for being a Jew.
In peace the only case one dies is a disease, old age, car accident or a
bank robbery.
Arabs had so many opportunities to prosper yet they choose the Radical
terror and Radical Islam propaganda to kill my people.
Why Egypt and no other Arab country does not want them? Why king Husain killed them
all in September 1970? Why does Egypt fight the Brothers of Islam and Hammas
too? As they know these are radical dangerous people in favor of terror from
the house of Iran and Al-Kaida today.
Have you seen any Arab country that allows Arabs to speak against, or Jews
to be Parliament members? No you don’t but Israeli Democracy have equal
rights and you see Arab parties that in loud voice are calling for the destruction of
Israel? Have you seen such a case in the USA? Poland Europe? No you do not.
So why do we blockade Gaza? Since they harbor terror, launch terror
attacks, use the supplies we give them to build weapons against us. Did you
know that Electricity to Gaza Fuel is provided by Israel? Did you know that
Israel provide them medical services and operations? Egypt does not. Turkey
does not, no one does. We do. But we pulled back, we are not there. We do not
have too; we do not have to open our borders to them as South Korea does not
open the border to the north or the USA does not open its borders to Cuba.
They attack the tracks from Israel shipping them flour to make bread.
Where was the world community voice when Hammas attacked Israel? Where was
its voice when Hammas killed the PLO people?
On top of that, Israel said they allow the flotilla from Turkey to harbor
in Ashdod and transfer the goods to Gaza they refused. They wanted to clash
with the IDF. Allow me to explain you one important thing, peace group does
not load the ship with knives iron tubes wrenches, Sledge Hammers etc, they
are decent people with good intention.
Peace people do not try to kill at most provoke !
IDF flotilla 13 navy seals were coming with demonstrations control means
like paintballs. The pistol was last resolve. They had to shut down those
people that endangered their life as these were terrorists. Turkish
government forgot one thing, Hammas is a terror organization in list of
terror organizations. They coped with them and provided means and ship under
Turkish Flag, hence by international law they are supporters of terror.
Furthermore, they tried to enter by force to conflict area of sovereign
country, my country the State of Israel and for that they were stopped by
the Navy. If they had accepted the IDF call to harbor In Ashdod and ship the
goods after inspection there is no weapons and means of terror nothing had
been happened but they do not hence they are to be blamed.
You spoke about Jews killed by the Nazis, yes the were killed by them just
because they were Jews. There was a plan final solution. Auschwitz-
Birkenau in Poland was a death camp for Jews not Polish. Germans could kill so many Jews as
there were many collaborators in Europe gladly massacring my people. Jewish
nation contributed to mankind more than any others. This nation is 0.1% of
world’s population yet 25% and more of Noble Prizes are Jewish, In Physics ,
Math , Medicine , Science, Literature etc.
Jews were and are loyal to their countries, fought in their armies , yes,
yes in the Polish Army in WW2, and died for Poland in WW1 like my
grandfather’s cousin from Krakow. Like others that
fought for the German Army in WW1, Russian Army, French Army British Army,
US Army. But in Europe of WW2 this was forgotten all of this rich culture
was killed by the Nazis and their collaborators. One of them Hage Amin El
Hussainy a Palestinian that gave aid to Adolf Eichmann.
On the other hand show me what is the contribution of Arabs to Europe and
the world? Show me the loyalty of them.
This is all driven from antiemetic wave, as people are trying to cleanse
their ugly past from WW2 by comparing us to Nazis. It won’t work. We do not
have final solution. We are a democratic country with civil rights and
equality to all religious and minorities. With supreme court and judicial
system that you shall not see in Arab Islamic countries and Gaza.
You visited some countries as a tourist and had a glimpse to a moment in
there.
Indeed there are good people there but bad as well.
Yes you saw troops in Jerusalem in alert from terror attacks; yes you wait
in check point to the wailing wall in the old city as there were attacks on
people there, I wait there too when coming to visit. Yes people have fun in
Tel-Aviv since it is good to have fun in the land of sun. It is the same in
NY, LA, Nice, Paris, Warsaw, Berlin…. and yes there are terrorists in jail
houses. In the USA, in Russia , in UK, in Turkey where you see Kurdish
liberation activists.
One more thing Turkey performed genocide in 1914 they killed 1500,000
Armenian people.
Lastly my question for you is would you let one to launch rockets kill
massacre your people and do nothing?
I do not think so.
The IDF code of honor: no Army in the world will risk his troops as the
IDF in order to prevent killing of innocent people. IDF medical corps saved
the life of many.
Armenia 1989
Turkey 1999
Kenya US Embassy blasting mission of rescue IDF.
South America
Haiti 2010
Have you seen any Palestinian force, Iranian Force, Hammas Force, doing
life save as the IDF ? No you did not.
Where was Europe and peace lovers when Russia attacked Georgia?
So here are some links for you to read.
IDF web http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/
Nobel Prize and contribution to man kind http://www.jinfo.org/ and
http://www.jinfo.org/Nobel_Prizes.html and
http://www.jewishmag.co.il/99mag/nobel/nobel.htm
CIA facts on Israel
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html
Hage Amin El Hussainy
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/2082/amin-al-husaini-and-the-holocaust-what-did-the-grand-mufti-know
Rescue missions of the IDF:
Kenya
http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/01/13/idf-search-and-rescue-pictures-from-india-and-kenya/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mZuA9q8xHjA&feature=related
Turkey
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/8/Israeli%20Aid%20for%20Turkish%20Earthquake%20Victims
Haiti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSsCBuBVzQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8OvnvuQcRA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1FPd1bJyE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TorIYLsUi_4&feature=related
And save me the time by saying you do not hate Jews but you are against Israel and Zionist as this trick of low level antiemetic is well known
June 8th, 2010 at 22:21
???? ?? ????. ??? ????? ???? ???. ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????
June 8th, 2010 at 22:21
israel and its people pee on you and your opinions, the same people you protect will burn your house and claim your country, you are stupid. you can shove your website and your opinions up you ass.
June 8th, 2010 at 22:30
Hi,
Thanks for taking interest in the Israeli Palestine conflict.
I guess that true response will be “I’m so against violent so I blocked my site for all people from all countries that their governments/leaders consistently use violent instead of peace option to resolved conflict”. And after saying that you should have blocked also the Palestinians, the Chines, and many others.
But you have chosen a different approach, and that may indicate on your sense of justness more than on the conflict and how to solve it.
Hope you will try and be able to see this conflict and others in more than black and white in the future and have a wonderful life.
Uri
June 8th, 2010 at 22:53
@greg : ‘… is the manifestation of colonisation by displaced and persecuted people. ‘
you’re talking about Australia, right?
you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy . describes you best.
where were you when our house was rocketed? did anyone claim that this war crime should be stopped? 9 years of rockets and mortars! just last week we had 2 more fired at us.
Fact: Hamas claims publicly they want to destroy Israel.
Fact: Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel withdrew.
Fact: Israel and Egypt blockade the coast of Gaza.
Fact: Every vessel which tried to enter was stopped (8 of them) with no violence
Fact: The ‘peace activists’ on the ship were trained soldiers who were paid and brought to stir things up (that’s according to a Turkish newspaper)
Fact: Every soldier is trained to shoot if he is attacked. Fortunately, the soldiers were elite so they only killed the attackers. no real peace activist was killed or injured (again – Turkish press)
Fact: According to IANA, the blockade and the taking of the ship was legal
Fact: All the supplies brought by the ships is rotting because Hamas don’t want to enter them into Gaza.
Don’t let the facts confuse you.
June 8th, 2010 at 23:03
Dear Eyolf,
It appears you’re an intellectual,and well-read man (Given the option to put an emphasis on intellectual, I would most certainly use it). As such you probably came across those remarks of giants before, yet I fell the urge to bring them up here before you.
“Doubt is uncomfortable, certainty is ridiculous.”, Voltaire
I can understand the outbreak of emotions, but as soon as those would be pacified, I tempt you to ponder the meaning of the quote above.
Later on I would beg you to remember the phrase that a certain Roman orator made famous so long ago “Cui bono”?
Hopefully you’ll get the time to read this. I’ll be waiting eagerly to hear your thoughts.
“I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.”,Socrates
June 8th, 2010 at 23:04
I agree! but we should not stop there, should we? I mean, its not like were anti-Israeli and racist; we want to boycott anyone who misbehaves, killing thousands and causing suffering, dont we?
Lets start with America. Everyone hates America, dont they? killing so many poor Germans and Japanese in WW-II, not to mention the Iraqi and Afgani people.
And Russia – didnt they kill thousands of Georgians just a year ago, with ‘guns and helicopters’?
China – I dont know how many they killed, but surely more than a few thousand.
Everyone in NATO – for all the poor civilians killed in the war in Afganisthan. This includes Denmark as well, of course. We should boycott ourselves and close this blog!
Soudan – we all know why, dont we?
Egypt – they’re responsible as well for Gaza, arent they? they have a border, and when poor Palestinians tried to cross it, they shot them.
Syria, Saudia, Jordan, and ALL Arab regimes – all kill many thousands of their people whenever its “necessary”. Same goes for Iran.
Lets not forget the peace seeking Turks, who kill thousands of Kurds whenever they fill threatened. The same Turks also murdered millions of Armenians during WW-I, and still deny it to this very day.
What about the Palestinians – they too murdered thousands of innocent civilians in the past years, havent they? although, true, they dont have helicopters. I wonder how many they would have killed had they did.
And to conclude, lets boycott the Bushmen. I really dont know what they did, but I just dont like them much, those Bushmen.
June 8th, 2010 at 23:06
if you really want to know about the israeli-arab conflict, do it from the middle east, and choose a democratic country, oh sorry i forgot – there’s only one like that in the middle east – THAT’S ISRAEL !
either way, go to Sderot or go to Gaza, who gives a fuck about pepole like you
June 8th, 2010 at 23:07
@Dani-
I’m an Israeli Jew and am proud of you for being able to find Eyolf’s name on google, but ashamed of how you quoted him completely out of context.
“The ritual killing of Daniel Pearl (a Jew-G.)… The fictitious cultural memories created by these false recalls of times supposedly immemorial try to hide the identity of the new originators of the blood accusation…we are called upon to expose publicly its constructed character and to raise our voices wherever it may be (re-)functionalized to engender hatred and death”.
It’s as if the author wrote “Blood libels are bad”, and you only read “Blood libels” and went and accused his editor of anti-semitism instead of staying within the borders the very real boycott argument.
And btw- look who’s on the cover http://books.google.com/books?id=ptwDhSLkSKkC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
So maybe you weren’t so intent on saying something nice after all.
June 8th, 2010 at 23:13
@Eyolf: ‘Heavily armed’? your a joker. You call a paint-ball gun and a small 9 mm handgun ‘heavy armor’? are you real?
June 8th, 2010 at 23:23
What would you do if you were the prime minister of Israel? Would you allow rockets to fall on your cities? Would you allow ships full off “unknown” enter this terror land without being checked?
I advice to every Muslim in the world to follow the original Koran good ways and not to follow those new age bed weeds of the Islam.
This tool is a must for every Muslim: http://www.islamic-toolbox.com
June 8th, 2010 at 23:25
No sir, you are sickening. you know nothing about anything, you live in your pretty far far away country making accusations according to things you only see in the news, they tell you how to think and you do it. your a sheep.
go live in Israel couple of months and then go to gaza and you will see the truth in your OWN glittering eyes and then, only THEN you can go and write anything you like with using your own BRAIN that your god gave you. its there for a reason sir. its not only for decoration.
oh and first thing that should concern you is your own country and its affairs, not other countries that are thousands of miles away from you that you can only see through your TV screen.
and if you really want to be a good man, talk about China, Chechnya, Turkey and her never ending murder and crimes against the Armenians and the Kurds, talk about animal cruelty, starving people in Africa and Asia… and so on and on and on.
Some food for thought Sir Hypocrite. I hope you will open your eyes.
June 8th, 2010 at 23:25
How does blocking Israelis’ access to Dylan’s lyrics and chords help change Israeli hearts and minds? Do you think Dylan’s music has made Israelis more likely to abuse Palestinians?
June 8th, 2010 at 23:57
Hi Eyolf,
I think that your decision to block your site for Israelis is GREAT !!
cous its only shows clearly that you belong to the group of ignorant people who sits in Europe and think it has a fucking idea about what is going on !!!
You think that because you watch CNN you can tell who is right or wrong??
you are a fool !
But idiots like you never go, they only change!
Kind Regards
Tomer , Switzerland.
P.s about your site, you can shave it up your ass
June 8th, 2010 at 23:57
Hi Eyolf,
I think that your decision to block your site for Israelis is GREAT !!
cous its only shows clearly that you belong to the group of ignorant people who sits in Europe and think it has a fucking idea about what is going on !!!
You think that because you watch CNN you can tell who is right or wrong??
you are a fool !
But idiots like you never go, they only change!
Kind Regards
June 9th, 2010 at 00:01
Hi Eyolf,
I think that your decision to block your site for Israelis is GREAT !!
cous its only shows clearly that you belong to the group of ignorant people who sits in Europe and think it has a fucking idea about what is going on !!!
You think that because you watch CNN you can tell who is right or wrong??
you are a fool !
But idiots like you never go, they only change!
Kind Regards
P.s shave your site up your ass !!!
June 9th, 2010 at 00:15
looking for Dylan…finding a political argument… After just attending a Dylan concert in the city of Bucharest, Romania, a few days ago… i must say 2 things… the concert was a bit disappointing and 2nd if Dylan would have known about this he wouldn’t have liked his work being politicized. To be true i am not that knowledgeable of the Israel-Palestinian war since i have not been living there… but i do know this… neither of the sides has been innocent. it’s true that Israelis voted its own government. but also the Palestinian when voting the HAMAS to power. an organization which massacred its own opposition, denies woman right and does not acknowledge the Jews right for a state… yet you have put no ban on them. And how about the Turkish people? Turky killed over a million Armenian and to this day do not even recognize it, not to mention their attacks on the Kurdistanian people whom home they took., yet no blocking of them. How about Iraqis whose government killed so many Kurdistanians, Iranian etc’ with chemical and biological warfer? USA people (Afghanistan, Iraq)? Bosnia, Half of the countries of Africa? having the luck to have both Israeli and Arab friend iv’e seen the real people whom you so happily block… not through a TV screen but up close and personal. I can tell you that both of them are good people, just as in all countries, who just want to live in peace and are just hunted by years of wars and miss trust. if you truly want to help, instead of judging and blocking, try to understand and bridge… that would help the people of Gaza a lot more then not allowing access to Israelis to your site. (this does not by any mean to say i support the Israeli action… but one most be truly objective when approaching such a harsh action). peace, shalom, salam, pace!
June 9th, 2010 at 00:33
@Mark, you said: “Arabs within Israel have no right to reside in the state with a partner who is from the West Bank or Gaza. Racist much?”
Not racist at all. Jews within Israel also have no right to reside in the state with a partner who is from the West Bank or Gaza. Where do you see racism?
June 9th, 2010 at 01:06
Eyolf, I’m sorry.. you’re just not very smart are you. That’s fine as long as you don’t spread your dumbness. Stupidity is addictive. You are a source. Therefore, shut up (unless you want to learn seriously about the conflict and then make an opinion). What you wrote there.. It just shows me how much you’re clueless. And you’re a clueless who makes big decisions which is… (some other word for stupid).
June 9th, 2010 at 01:41
All the worst radicals in the world that want to destroy west democracy from Muslims to Radical Socialists join together to heat the weakest point of this world. For misleading the people they use human rights vocabulary, however their intentions are violent. This week more than 500 people were killed around the world in Somali, Sudan, Iran etc. Did you see any protests of these “human rights defenders”? They intentions are demolishing of single democracy in the Middle East.
Israel 2010 = Czechoslovakia 1938
June 9th, 2010 at 02:04
Look at the mourners, bloody great hypocrites
It is so easy to sit in Europe and say that Israel is evil but if i were you i would be enraged for the cynical use of humanitarian causes to smuggle bloodthirsty violent men to make war – not love.
As Bob put it so nicely -
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
All the Best to all you European
may the ten percent Muslims in your land be as peace seeking as the ones in Gaza
June 9th, 2010 at 03:50
Israel Israel and Israel.
Is this the only place on earth?
There are some many bad things in the world but ppl seems to pick only on Israel. Why is that?
What about Iran, Russia,Turkey, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, USA did you blocked them also?
I feel sorry for you!
June 9th, 2010 at 03:52
Good morning from israel , Adolf !
June 9th, 2010 at 03:56
Eyolf You are wrong! This is not good thing to do.
June 9th, 2010 at 04:44
Eyolf,
Being myself Israeli, I naturally disagree with the way you look at the situation here. Things look differently when you actually live at the actual site where all this is actually happening.
Furthermore, I usually consider boycotts and divestments useless and inefficient.
However, I can only raise my hat in respect to your decision to put your voice and actions behind your political beliefs and close your site to visitors from Israel, even though you lose traffic from this country, many of whose residents are great fans of Dylan and are the natural target of your site.
I wish more people in this world were as honest, as brave and as sincere as you, Eyolf.
Nahum Wengrov,
Jerusalem,
Israel
June 9th, 2010 at 05:02
You, sir, are a not very smart man. It’s obvious that all that you know about a conflict you heard only from pro-Palestinian sources. As a man of science, with a Ph.D., you should know how a real research is done.
You are ignorant, blind, hateful, intolerant pseudo-liberal who has no idea what he’s talking about, just like any other left-wing European. I would like to point just one thing in this post of yours – you obviously have no idea what fascism is or you just don’t know anything about the state of Israel if you think that Israel is a fascist state. I suggest you to learn the facts first and write such a posts later, in order not to look foolish.
And now you may ban Israelis also from this blog, just to show how cool you are.
June 9th, 2010 at 05:09
And just to add..
Israel is not an asshole. Israel is a big giant dick. Hamas (and Bin Laden and Achmadinajad and all their nice little friends) are assholes, and people such as yourself are a bunch of pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes. Sometimes dicks fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate, and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes pussies get so full of shit that they become assholes themselves, because pussies are only an inch and a half away from assholes. I don’t know much about this crazy world, but I do know that if the world doesn’t let us fuck these assholes, we are going to have our dicks and our pussies all covered in shit.
Credit to Team America.
June 9th, 2010 at 06:57
i read everything posted here, and i felt a need to respond.
i have a feeling that all this arguement is making us miss the point. let me ask you something:
can anyone please tell me how many countries are banned from the website?
is north korean ip banned? how about ruanda? china? iran? syria? yemen? afhganisthan? russia?
as many of you surely know, i could go on and on with this list.
is the palestinian people the only people in the whole world which are denied – supposedly – basic human needs?
did u block this site for palestinians when they bombed israeli cities for years, killing innocent citizens in buses and shopping malls?
i have a feeling that we all know the answers for these questions. don’t hide behind terms like “human aid” and “peaceful intentions”, let’s just call this what it really is: plain racism. good ole’ antisemitism.
June 9th, 2010 at 07:02
Hi Eyolf,
you might want to read the following article written by the Danish institute for international studies, titled Jihad in Denmark written by Michael Taarnby Jensen, your fellow country-man.
It is my hope that after reading this document you will learn how Denmark, your beloved country will turn an Islamic state in the next 30 Years.
You would also be amazed at the amount of terrorist cells in Denmark alone, working towards Jihad. It is a fact that the muslims have not forgotten the crusades, but in the next years, you and your children and your childrens’ children will have the same way of life as you have enjoyed till today.
Israel has been in this position, under a Jihadist attack for the past 60 years, my opinion is that it might continue for the next 60 years, but it would be interesting to know, after you read the article, how do you imagine your life in the next 30 years, when the muslim population in Denmark will rise to 25% then 30% and then they will sing Neighborhood Bully on how they defeated the Danish people.
Since the amount of comments for your posts are overwhelming i admit that i did not read all of them, but i would like to note that i condemn any act of violence, verbal or physical for this matter, and hope that you would find to condemn acts of violence performed by Hamas and not just Israel.
It is certain that you would want me to condemn the people that will live in your homeland in 30-40 years and might imprison your wife/daughter/niece/granddaughter for not wearing a burka, a punishment in Iran, the islamic state, for not wearing a burka is 20-50 lashes with a leather belt.
Is this the future you see for Denmark. I HOPE NOT, but we do not want this either.
Might i take this chance and offer you to come visit Israel, Me casa es su casa :-), you will have a bedroom, with board and free WiFi, to update your blog.
If you really want to know the truth, come see it up close!
Respectfully,
NB
June 9th, 2010 at 07:06
It is a fact that the muslims have not forgotten the crusades, but in the next years, you and your children and your childrens’ children will _NOT_ have the same way of life as you have enjoyed till today.
It is interesting to me that the BBC in the UK have decided on creating this web page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
June 9th, 2010 at 07:28
it is soooo easy to sit in Europe far from here and judge and have an opinion
humans are just the same everywhere. we have good guy, bad guy like anywhere else in the world.
Shame on you!!!!
did u come to Israel? to Gaza? did u see how it is looking from here? the reality?
don’t u understand that u see just what the media wants u to see?
all just for the rating!!!!
preach for peace and understanding not for hatred! especially when you deal with Bob Dylan poetry and music!
June 9th, 2010 at 07:28
hi
i think that you hav a lot of misunderstending of what is happing in the middle east.
so i personlly invite you to be my gust in israel and i will show you around/ we will meet with israeli arabs and with palestinien
i will encounter you with th all range of persons who live in the state of israel and in the west bank.
if you are a rael humaniste please except my invitetion that comes from a real humaniste person
idont want to make propaganda i only want that so see in person and not from the media thefacts and then decide for yourself what is the truth.
im an left wing israeli, im a teacher and i really want you to be my gust at the kibbuts im living in
you can write me to my mail im very cincire
mick
June 9th, 2010 at 07:36
@Your Mother
One of the greatest movie speeches of all time :)
and indeed, this european pussies are only an inch and a half away from Hamas’ assholes, this is so insightful!
June 9th, 2010 at 07:41
By the way, Dr. Eyolf, you forgot to tell the Israeli visitors how to vote in the next elections.
What if they vote again for a party you don’t approve? That won’t give them access to the chords.
Please tell them in advanced who to vote for.
June 9th, 2010 at 08:07
A rotten childhood does not justify being an asshole.
What is your excuse for being an asshole then?
June 9th, 2010 at 08:10
Hey Eylof,
I understand your rage and anger, and I am not too happy about what happened, obviously.
You don’t have to agree with what I say, but at least try to listen to the facts, because it seems you might be misinformed. Israel has not killed thousands of achmeds, in this specific action or in total. And if you count the loss of lives on both sides they come out quite equal.
Now let me ask you this… If someone was coming to your country (by boat or plane or any other way), and you had a suspicion they are carrying weapons which might be used against you, wouldn’t you want to check it out? Unless you have a death wish I suspect you would. Israel requested in many ways, to simply board the vessels and make sure there are no weapons on board. This request was denied. Even at sea this request was made again, to board quietly and look around and again – denied. So what would you have done instead?
Now, you might claim that Israel has no authority over Palestinian territories, and therefor is not allowed to make such a request. I would agree with that if the world was consistent. However look at what’s going on in the world in other places…
The western world is afraid Iran will develop nuclear weapons and attack it. So it allows itself (with force) to go in and check what’s going on. It employ sanctions on Iran. It interfaces many transports to Iran because they might contain something related to nuclear weapons (even though it theoretically has no right over that territory).
Another example… Al-Quaida attacked the US in a vicious terror attack. What did the US do. Forcibly enter Afganistan (meaning attack another country) with all it’s power to crush any Al-Quaida presence there. Civilians were hurt in the process (naturally).
There are many more examples in the world, but I want to ask you what is the difference between them and Israel’s wish to defend itself? I’m seriously asking to understand why the Israeli situation is viewed so differently??
Israel has never attacked anyone unless it had concrete information of a threat. Israel has never attacked any civilians directly (alway military locations or people). The terrorists of palestine attack ONLY Israeli civilians, they almost never attack the army.
Israel has already recognized in the need for a Palestinian state, even though most of the arab world does not recognize the right of Israel to exist. Do you honestly think it’s fair??
Do you expect people not to defend themselves.
The sad thing is that if you were here, you would see that in reality the war is just between the Israeli army and the Hamas (oh… and the Israeli civilians the Hamas attacks).
The rest of us, simple folk, on both sides have had enough.
June 9th, 2010 at 08:19
Eyolf plese read it all before you take aside,
As a proud iaraeli I was born & raise here and served my country, I can just tell you that you could’nt be any more wrong then that.
I dont know how come people are taking any sides when they are not even here to know and see the truth.
You must understand that israel is the only country in world that gives millions of shekels worth of supplys to people that want to kill us all just because we are jews.
And we do that cuz we know that not all of them are like that…some are good and they all got children that born in to terrorisem and to terrorists that are using them!!
there own children!! as human shilds….
and we can prove it all…but unfortunately whom ever counroll the midia counroll the world. And those films I see every day of the truth can not be seen by your country’s network.
But if you are really a justice seeker like me…you can reach me in my e-mail I just left here (because I am not a fraide of the truth) and I will send you some of the movie clips I am talking about.
Eyolf, If you really want to be a hero of justice in the eys of god you must do your home work first and only then you can be true to your self.
I hope you read it all and that you will keep in touch.
nir
June 9th, 2010 at 08:45
Dear Sir,
We appreciate you boycott on Israel; really we do not know how we will manage to live without this tremendous service.
I invite you to come to Israel and spend a few weeks in Sderot where during the last couple of years since the Hamas, an internally recognized terror organization, has been “peacefully” launching thousands of mortar rockets and missiles on Southern Israel cities.
Of course Israel, the neighborhood bully, should sit back while women and children’s life’s are terrorized intentionally. God forbid Israel after 7 years of absorbing this missiles, 3 years of holding Gilad Shalit without out a single visit from the red cross, should decide that enough is enough and it is time to defend its citizens. I wonder how many visits the Hamas prisoners in Israel have received from their families. How many visits has Gilad Shalit received?
So sit in you nice home in Denmark, sip on your cup of espresso, and please ban all things Israeli. We have more important things to worry about here than people who have no idea what it is like to live in this part of the neighborhood.
I hope that in the near future you will open your eyes and see what the future hold’s for parts of Europe as you do everything possible to invite these sharks into your waters.
Proud Israeli.
June 9th, 2010 at 09:21
Where are you now? you pathetic blog become very interesting with all these Israeli comments but I wonder what do you want to say now. good arguments – really want to hear your answers to all
anyway guys – to much attention to this fool is not that good
June 9th, 2010 at 09:39
So, you tried to deny people from Israel from entering your site, and instead you got hundreds of them commenting on your ignorant and hypocrite approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have to say it’s pretty funny.
It’s amazing that as somebody who lives among cultural terrorists who would kill because of a caricature of Muhammed, you still support them in their smear campaign against the state of Israel.
I invite you to come to Israel and witness that 20% of its citizens are arabs, enjying full rights just as any other Israeli citizen, Jew or not; That Arabic is a formal language, just as Hebrew is; How Palestinians in the West Bank are living their lives comparing to Palestinians in Gaza. How Israel allows the entry of humanitarian aid to Gaza, but Hammas declines it.
June 9th, 2010 at 09:45
All i have to say to many of you and Greg in particular is that;
I an Israeli born Australian have a grave fear for my life to enter Bankstown in Sydney or Preston and Broadmeadows in Melbourne (largely populated by Arabic countries originated immigrants).
Why you ask, well that’s because I’m a Jewish person that was born in Israel.
You might think that I’m only saying it to make a point, however i was already attacked serval times either physically or verbally by individuals in those suburb due to the fact i was speaking Hebrew (my mother language).
Is this Australia a free country? Can you as an Aussie visit those suburb with a sense of security?
Why can’t I, i left Israel to escape it all to a promised land which i remembered from my first visit at 1993 to be a hell of allot different.
Moving forward you might think that this is all to do with Israel, soon you all will realise what mistake you’ve made.
June 9th, 2010 at 10:01
@gili
You are right and I am Sorry, my mistake,the second I saw it i was impulsed by anger.
at list I gen admit when doing so,did saw Aylof doing the same.
June 9th, 2010 at 10:10
I don’t know if you interested in learning the facts or you only want to express your opinion (which is also fine).
If you do interested in the facts you are welcome to read this series of articles describing the facts about the conflict and showing how much hypocrisy there is in this matter from all over the world.
I guess you’ll ignore my comment, and probably delete it because this debate is not on truth and rights, it is on who captured the heart and who looks weaker, but weak is not always right.
1. The Arab world is subject to genocide, it is true. It’s just that it’s mostly self-inflicted – http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/483/521.html
2. The Plight of the Refugees – http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5990
3. AND THE WORLD PAYS – http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/529/562.html/
4. The trap of self-delusion – http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/571/620.html
This one is shorter – https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AWXYV56qlacKZGdwYzRoYzlfMTg1aG1ndmtzZnc&hl=en
And just in case you’ll want to know what Israel brought to the world – http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19926
June 9th, 2010 at 10:40
Eyolf Ostrem, you just showed us that you really know nothing about the Israeli- Palestinian conflict, therefore you do not have the right to criticise any of the sides.
June 9th, 2010 at 11:04
and just in case you missed it…
Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
His enemies say he’s on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He’s the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He’s the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He’s always on trial for just being born
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he could apologize
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, the chances are against it, and the odds are slim
That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
‘Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a licence to kill him is given out to every maniac
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, he got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
He’s the neighborhood bully.
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract that he signed was worth that what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He’s the neighborhood bully.
What’s anybody indebted to him for ?
Nothing, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He’s the neighborhood bully.
What has he done to wear so many scars ?
Does he change the course of rivers ? Does he pollute the moon and stars ?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully.
June 9th, 2010 at 11:20
In a world in which North Korea sinks a South Korean naval vessel killing dozens, Iran arms Islamic terrorists, who kill hundreds, Russia bombs Chechnya, killing thousands, and the United States and Great Britain, while targeting al Qaida and Taliban, kill an indeterminate number of civilians, only Israel is subjected to international “investigations” such as that conducted by Richard Goldstone and that being called for by the Security Council in the wake of the recent flotilla fiasco.
Why only Israel? Why is the United Nations silent about other situations that cry out for international investigations? Surely it’s not because what Israel did was worse than what other member nations have done. Certainly it’s not because Israel lacks self-criticism or mechanisms for internal investigation. Plainly it’s not because the other “offenders” were provoked, while Israel was unprovoked.
There is only one answer – because Israel has long been singled out for public scrutiny and opprobrium by the United Nations in particular and the international community in general.
June 9th, 2010 at 11:22
Sorry to say that, but I think most european people can`t handle the mass of Muslems in there own countries.
I know you don`t want your country demographics to change, but they will change it for you. maybe that is the reason you boycutt Israel. I don`t know. trying to be nice to your future landlords.
A lot of the “western” European countries are full with millions of muslems, all of your demographics is changeing… is that going to be the real problame for “Christian” Europeans?
June 9th, 2010 at 12:38
Dear Eyolf Østrem ,
1. As a musicologist, have you ever checked to see how many Hebrew songs contain the word “SHALOM” – peace? I don’t think there is another nation on this planet with so many songs, yearning for peace. I haven’t checked, but I presume the amount of songs in Arabic (taking into account the number of Arab countries) is close to nothing. I would be more than happy to be proved wrong!
2. I want to personally invite you to a concert with the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra with Conductor Zubin Mehta & singer Shlomo Artzi which will take place opposite the Gaza Strip in order to arise international public opinion to the fact that Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit has been in captivity for 4 years, without basic human rights, like visits from the Red Cross etc. Too bad we can’t arrange a flotilla to Gaza for him…
3. I will personally have you stay over in my home, on a left-wing kibbutz, 4.5 km from the Gaza border, hopefully there will not be any reason to run for shelter in case of mortar or Kassam firing (not that we have shelters…).
4. Next day, we can go to the Kerem Shalom (vineyard of peace) border crossing so you can see first hand the supplies (not humanitarian aid!) being transported into Gaza on a daily basis, even though they are basically at state of war with Israel.
5. You wrote “A fascist, belligerent regime is not justifiable by any past, no matter how cruel and injust it has been.”
I take it you were referring to Israel. But as Wikipedia states:
“Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. They claim that culture is created by collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus rejects individualism. In viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they claim that pluralism is a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety. They advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality”.
Oddly, that sounds a lot closer to the Hamas regime than to the democratic State of Israel. When was the last time you saw a peace march (No More War-No More Bloodshed) in the Gaza strip or the West Bank?
I can only presume that you are against collective punishment by Israel onto the people of Gaza. Isn’t your own private boycott of the state of Israel and anything/-one associated with it much the same?
If our ultimate goal is to have world peace, wouldn’t sitting down and trying to settle our differences by talking make more sense than fighting, boycotting or just plain “I’m mad at you so we’re not talking” ?
This world could surely use some group therapy!!!
Thought of the day:
WAR DOES NOT DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT – BUT WHO IS LEFT.
Shalom y’all
June 9th, 2010 at 13:09
It’s about time you all understand. Instead of asking “where are they when rockets are shot on Sderot for 8 years?” or “Where are all the bleeding hearts when it comes to other tyrant regimes?”, it’s about time we understand that we’re way past these questions.
There’s one way they can come to terms with Jews, and one way only. In memorials.
Jews, in eyes of the gentiles, were created since the dawn of history to be victims. A jew fighting back? And WINNING? That’s where they lose it…
And check this 6 minute documentary. Have nothing else to say…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXwX1tD1EBs&feature=player_embedded
June 9th, 2010 at 13:32
FUCK YOU! RUDE LETTER FOLLOWS.
June 9th, 2010 at 13:54
A couple of funny things:
Arab israelis are blocked from your site as well.
You are ignorant as hell.
Dylan was an israeli and lived in a kibbutz
The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He’s the neighborhood bully
June 9th, 2010 at 13:59
You are one ignorant mother fucker.
June 9th, 2010 at 14:10
Eyolf, you are pretty pathetic here.
There are a lot of anonymizers in the Web, so two more clicks give me possibility to avoid any dumb IP-blocking.
And one more question: I suppose that you, as a honest (even a little naive) person, applied the same measures to the Lebanese visitors during the Hizbullah attack on Israel in 2006, did you? And to the Georgians because of their assault on Ossetia in 2008?
June 9th, 2010 at 16:03
I think that all this “peacekeeprs”, including you, that want peace by taking actions like boycot and other violente acts is more dengerous to humanity then what the Israeli are doing for thier selfdefence.
If Israel will act exactly like do to them, there will be a huge worldwide cry over it, but when “smart peacefull” guys like you doing it, it is good act to help the world.
At the end of the day you are a small racist.
June 9th, 2010 at 20:29
Hello Eyolf & others
I’ve read in one of the blogs about the boycott you put on Israeli users.
I really don’t care neither about your blog, nor its content.
I was just wondering what you really know, really really know about Israel, about Gaza, about the Gaza flotilla? What I mean is not the news you’ve heard on TV or read in the newspapers, I mean the truth behind it. Have you ever been to Israel, have you ever been trying to understand the roots of that conflict? Did someone ever said he will wipe out Denmark just because… you are there?
Claiming that Israel has been killing thousands is ridiculous and show a bit of (and forgive me..) ignorance.
Let me give you some facts, that you might don’t know:
• Did you know that all supplies brought with the Gaza flotilla, is lying on the Israeli/Gaza border, since the Hamas refuses to let it in. all they wanted is to embarrass Israel.
• Did you know that the Turkish press today (NOT the Israeli) published that all the 9 persons who died on that flotilla were Islamic activists , who left videos saying that they hope to die as “Shahid”?
• Do you know why there is a blockade on Gaza from the beginning? Few facts:
o There is no one single Israeli in the Gaza strip today.
o Did you know that after we left Gaza for 8 years, day after day, they were shooting missiles on Israeli civilians? They’ve killed babies, kids and women! Was that published daily on the Danish press?
o If someone was firing missiles at Copenhagen for 8 consecutive years. Do you believe you would bring flowers to him? AGAIN don’t forget there is no Israelis in Gaza today, so the word occupation is irrelevant.
• Did you know that the Hamas (who govern Gaza) is declaring day by day, that they will rest assure, only after all Israeli will be thrown to the sea? They’ve declared dozen times that there will be no peace with Israel whatsoever.
* Few years ago when an earthquake occurs in Turkey, Israel sent the largest help to Turkey, saving lives of thousands of Turks (YES saving NOT killing).
* Israel was the first to send aid to Haiti, yes even before the mighty huge America
Some interesting sources for you:
I attached some photos from the Gaza markets.
http://da.danielpipes.org/2121/det-muslimske-europa (in Danish)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY3QpWvYzLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=obUhOcTSD1I&playnext_from=TL&videos=0mWvyJjIfTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=ZprVPKi-W6s&playnext_from=TL&videos=4-XDTE7HtCs
Amir.
June 9th, 2010 at 22:39
Many Palestinians have Israeli ip addresses here. Jerusalem has East and West side, arab and jewish neighborhoods are on both sides. How exactly the logistics work?
June 10th, 2010 at 10:59
Real Face of Hamas, the Murderer Of Palestinians:
This link shows an 11 minutes movie (please watch it when you have the time). It was made by an Arab man who explains about Hamas and their behavior towards the Palestinians (poor Palestinians!). Sometimes the truth is hard to believe if you don’t experience it, but sadly it is the truth. Ignoring it will not change reality. Please, if you feel humanitarian, don’t avoid the truth, it makes us suffer more. Please don’t sacrifice us, our people and children to the mercy of these people- they don’t have any!!! Not for their own people and certainly not for the Israelis. By ignoring the truth, people assist them to continue their dangerous agenda (yes, we’re also not sure what it is, common sense says society can’t exist acting that way). Remember, they do have global ambitions, remember September 11 and other terror attempts.
Israel doesn’t ask you to start a war, we just ask you not to condemn and deny our right to defend ourselves! We beg you to not stop us from preventing them smuggling weapons and concrete for bunkers (to smuggle more weapons and terrorists). We never prevented humanitarian aid, when they are hurt (usually by Hamas, accusing us) we take care of them in our medical centers). We provide them with food and daily needs which they can’t provide themselves with due to the situation.
You can look at it as saving yourselves by keeping the problem within Israel’s borders, the minute they will finish (with) us, they’ll start with you (start counting their immigrants in your country…).
Excuse us from not thanking you for our right to live, but we certainly do thank you for your patience and caring.
Thank you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE&NR
June 10th, 2010 at 11:05
funny you describe Israel as faschist
I wonder how you describe Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria…
Banned Speech: The UN Council That Created the Goldstone Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU
June 10th, 2010 at 11:21
hey
i am an israeli who belive in the two state idea, wanna devide jerusalem, belive in talking and not fighting, i am helping the arabs when i can any way you get my drift.
ioh and one more thing i think this flotila thing was a mistake BUT befor u do somthing like that, blocking an entire country (which has druz arabs muslems christians thai people etheiopian etc….) u should find out the facts and then decide.
i dont ask u to not block us i just want u to be fair to check the facts.i would love to talk with u as a person and a friend and a fan of mr bob dylan. u have my mail.
but just a point of thinking, what about iran(killing it own people like in the demonstration) china(control and destoing tibet) sudan (darfur) gaza(more palestiniens got killed by hamas ,130, then by israeli forces 2009).
what about them?
i dont say that u r wrong i just think u dont know all the facts, and if u think u do know i would love to talk with u personaly.
u have my mail
with much respect
arik rubinshtein
and again i DO agree with u about how wrong it was (what israel have done)
thanks
June 10th, 2010 at 11:47
Your actions are misguided and clearly show your true colors. It is a result of people like you that Israel (and Jews ) has to disregard public opinion and take care of themselves first. If left to the UN Israel would have been destroyed years ago. Israel is not perfect and they will make mistakes in judgement from time to time but their mistakes are not made in the name of hate but in the name of self preservation. You can claim whatever you like but your actions are born of hate.
June 10th, 2010 at 12:36
I feel pity for you. You are blind. You making fool of yourself misled by bunch of shameless provocators.
Well, at least you are famous now.
I would suggest you to visit Israel to get familiar with the facts or at least pro actively study the facts rather then allow them to brainwash you.
Remember, you and your country are next in row when Israel is down.
June 10th, 2010 at 19:38
Eyolf,
It upsets me that the best Dylan website is run by such an ignorant, prejudiced fool. I’m sure if Sweden (You’re Swedish right?) were attacked constantly by a terrorist organization, then you would maybe sympathize with Israel, but no, you sit in your comfortable European house with no idea with what is really going on in the world (I am in America, so I can’t really say I do either, but I at least don’t judge people based on propaganda and rhetoric)
Anyway, you disgust me. Have you ever been to Israel? Didn’t think so.
June 10th, 2010 at 19:51
Sorry, my mistake, you aren’t Swedish, you are Danish. But still.
June 10th, 2010 at 21:22
as a left winged Israeli, I have to say i can understand your frustration, and i can see why people who live in Europe are rushing to take the Palestinians side… i can argue with you about this for hours.
Nevertheless i think boycotting is always an unfair undemocratic move. silencing opinions and ignoring people you don’t agree with, are just lousy solutions…
you should use you voice to influence people!
June 10th, 2010 at 22:46
David said: “I am in America, so I can’t really say I do either, but I at least don’t judge people based on propaganda and rhetoric”
Except whatever propaganda and rhetoric on which that judgement was based. Right?
June 11th, 2010 at 01:35
Eyolf, its hard to know where to start with the load of shit your original post has generated.
It is truly sad to see so many unpleasant and stupid people here. There are many arguments that could be made but not to the audience that seems to have chosen to attempt to defend the totally unlawful murder of civilians in international waters.
It is both sad and ironic that Zion state has become the fascist face of the modern age. Don’t misunderstand, I have no truck with any form of fundamentalist religion – no, I would go further – religion has constantly been the driving force and justification of most atrocities in the history of humanity.
I am not going to attempt to go into the sad history of this region, suffice to say it is not too hard to see where the suffering people are, who’s building on who’s land and who’s become the Neighbourhood Bully.
I only checked into your blog to say thanks once again for the fantastic work you have done in both transposing and providing commentary on Bob’s opus. It is a tragedy that your blog has been pounced on by such ignorant crap.
Just as an example, because it is there from David (who seems to have his whole world the wrong way round – David WWII was fought in Europe, not the USA and, to the best of my recollection Korea and Vietnam weren’t fought in Oklahoma either?).
So, the answer to David, on your behalf, is no I haven’t been to Israel, why would I? But, this is the the same spurious argument that was put to me as a teenager to defend the killing in Kenya, Rhodesia and South Africa in the 1960′s. I never understood then and don’t now, how going to a county would make me understand the violence and killing. Would I have need to have been in Germany in 1939 to condemn Kristal night?
So, Eyolf, ‘If dogs run free then why not we’ and I was going to make a comment on New Morning not all this crap.
June 11th, 2010 at 05:00
Attacking Eyolf personally for his political views is childish and completely unnecessary.
I applaud him for standing up for his beliefs in such a passionate way and I encourage all of you to do the same in the respectful and topical manner Eyolf has chosen.
June 11th, 2010 at 06:12
Whew, I made it to the bottom! I should have gone to bed, but I just couldn’t help myself.
What’s really interesting to me is that a large portion of these posts were on June 8th – and at about 8pm there was this massive surge in postings.
Sadly, my first post, on June 8th at about 2:30 am was ignored entirely. And ironically, the general quality of the posts degenerated severely at that point. It’s still interesting to read, but the civil discussion portion seems to be a loss.
From the posters here: I’d really appreciate some vulnerability without so much anger. I think it would do more for me, as an observer. I understand you are upset and offended, but if you can show me where it hurts; tell the story, as you see it, of how we came to be here. I believe that would be a great thing to share.
We talk about facts, but I’m more interested in stories. Facts require cross-checking, whereas a story is just a story.
June 11th, 2010 at 16:17
Thanks to all who have posted.
To those who have spoken up in my support: much appreciated.
To the rest of you: you have provided me with some excellent source material for a future study. Priceless and worthless at the same time. Thanks.
June 12th, 2010 at 13:58
To Sagi,
i spent my early childhood in Bankstown and personal security has for generations been an issue there. The park I played in as a child was littered with used syringes, there were many other hazards and that was the 1970s. Australia certainly has many challenges to face; both facing up to its past and creating its future. Cities the world over have no go zones.
Sagi I believe that your personal security would be at risk in the areas you mention and for the reasons you put forward and that there is a great deal of discrimination and racism in Australia. I don’t think any society has dealt with these forces; I too feel for the tragic, tenous and perilous situation Isreal and people finds itself in.
One of the most articulate and insightful minds I have read on the situation is Ichak Kalderon Adizes, PhD. I never set out to justify the actions of Eyolf or peruscute those of Isreal. There are many sides to this complex, distressing and seemingly intractable situation.
http://www.adizes.com/blog/?p=573
I suggest everyone have a read through Dr Adize’s thoughts he has written exstensively on the subject and does a fine job of removing emotional responses and positing insightmful commentary.
June 12th, 2010 at 17:18
This thread is now officially closed.
However, I have to take issue with one of the comments which I missed in the general confusion, because it does great unjustice to someone else. It has to do with this comment, referring, as proof of my antisemitism, to an article in one of the books I’ve been an editor of.
The article is written by Richard Utz of Western Michigan University, a scholar of the highest moral and intellectual standard.
The article studies the accusations — entirely fictional — that were frequently directed against Jews in the Middle Ages, that they performed ritual murder of non-Jews and used the victims’ blood for ritual purposes. But most importantly, it discusses how these racist narratives are still used today in antisemitic propaganda (quoting, e.g., a scholar from King Faisal University, writing in the the leading Saudi government daily in 2002: “the Jews’ spilling of human blood to prepare pastry for their holidays is a well-established fact, historically and legally, all throughout history”), and presents this as a (much needed) challenge to the scholarly world: to take issue not only with the outrageous wrongdoings of the past, but also with their incarnations in the present. The article ends:
This is a conclusion I stand by wholeheartedly.
June 14th, 2010 at 01:36
“why is it that Israel may kill thousands of semi-dark-skinned Achmeds and Muhammeds ”
Why is it that Europeans are so ignorant and presume that the Israeli Jewish/Palestinian Arab conflict has something to do with skin colour?
A significant portion of Israel’s Jewish population is semi-dark-skinned, and indeed there are many (notably Israelis who are of Ethiopian Jewish heritage) who one could say are more than “semi” dark skinned. Additionally, a significant proportion of Arabs are very fair-skinned, and have light features, blond or red hair and blue or green eyes. Why do I so often see ignoramuses bringing issues of of race/color into the discussion?
June 15th, 2010 at 01:09
You have misread me: this was not a comment on the Jewish/Palestinian conflict, but on the sad fact that Israel could slaughter 1300 in the previous massacre and — once the obligatory media stir was over — it was business as usual, whereas it seemed to take a couple of Europeans to be among the attacked for the world to react.
That said, saying that race (or, if you prefer, cultural/ethnical segregation) is not an important part of the “discussion”, is even more ignorant.
June 19th, 2010 at 12:45
Well done Eyolf for taking a small stand against the Facist
state of Israel. I applaud your courage as you will surely now
be targeted by the ADL and its attack dogs who control all major
media outlets worldwide. No offence of course intended to the decent
people of Israeli nationality who are I am sure, just as appalled and
sickened as any sane human being by the attrocities being carried
out ever more brazenly by the sociopaths who control the State of Israel.
June 22nd, 2010 at 18:49
@The Blind Commish: I’m sure too: since I haven’t heard from them, I guess they support the boycott and keep their mouths shut.
February 22nd, 2011 at 16:56
I am not firing rockets of judgement. I am trying to hold up a mirror. You too are not happy with the actions of you government that is clear
April 14th, 2011 at 09:52
Eyolf,
I really, truly appreciate how you use rhetoric of fairness, and claim that you “haven’t seen a fair argument in favor of Israel”. At the same time, you only allow the posting of comments which you approve. this control of the flow of information is exactly what frames the entire conversation on the site. While it is important to control the flow of explosive comments, at the same time not allowing all of the comments to be heard is no different than what is done by governments worldwide which you yourself would consider fascist, cruel, and simply unfair. It is not only possible, but quite probable that you have come across a good argument against your position, but simply not allowed it through because you do not know how to respond. I guess this is just something to think about. you cannot have a fair conversation or claim to represent any instance of truth or rigor of logic in your argument when you are filtering all of the above material to fit your agenda.
I disagree with many of the policies of the Israeli Government, but i do not believe that boycotting the people (who by the way need your support to stand up to their government) will be beneficial in any way shape or form.
As a student of government, political sciences, history, and middle eastern language, the ignorance contained in your arguments is glaring, and quite concerning. it is arguments like yours that perpetuate the fear, hatred, and ignorance which threaten the future of the civilized world.
April 14th, 2011 at 09:56
and Eyolf, also, to make an assumption that if the ADL is not responding that they support you and the boycott is probably the most ignorant thing I have heard in a long time. look up the ADL before you make any assumptions. it is logic like that which undermines all of your credibility in argument.
I really would like to hear you make a valid point. but sweeping something under the rug, and taking it as a pat on the back when you do not know anything about the organization which you are referring to is just sad.
April 14th, 2011 at 10:03
Further, If you have watched the footage released taken by the Al Jazeera camera crew on board the MAvi MArmara, you would see the 2 dozen or more men who spent the evening cutting up the railings of the ship to make weapons to attack the coast guard which they knew would be boarding the ship.
and the several men who were interviewed by the crew that said that they were preparing to “die as martyrs”
April 14th, 2011 at 15:43
@Josh: about censorship: if I were a state, of course it would have been fascist (or Absolutist, or some other despotic ideology) of me to filter/censor comments. It wouldn’t matter if I did it for the right reasons: that I actually wanted to stimulate debate by filtering out the abuse and the posts that just repeat the same points over and over again.
But I’m not a state, I’m an individual, and the despotic metaphor does not apply.
BTW, If you take my comment about the ADL seriously, that’s too ridiculous.